You are quite welcome. You have been very courteous. Courteous even when I offended with my habitual abruptness.
--- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@...> wrote: > > Well, I suppose that makes a lot of sense. I have become rather "quick" in > noticing when I first begin to have a thought, but my practice has always > been to return to the present. I will see what my teacher has to say on this > issue of reflective awareness. Not that I blindly follow whatever my teacher > advises, he would not allow me to do that anyway. But, I deeply respect his > advice in the Way. I would wager a guess that he will say to continue "just > coming back," but I do not know for certain until I ask. Rewrisk, I > appreciate the interactions I have had with you thus far on this forum, I > feel it is very enriching to learn of various techniques. Again, thank you > for taking the time to reply. > > --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote: > > > > Interesting. > > I found that if I could catch the thought as it arose I then knew the > > impulse that drove it and this was the begining of the reflective awareness. > > > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> wrote: > > > > > > Rewrisk, a coincidence indeed, I as well had asthma throughout my > > > childhood and teens. Luckily, that has subsided over the years (no > > > thanks to many hair-brained years of cigarettes, which I have only > > > recently quit). But, anyway, my technique. I do place emphasis on just > > > focusing on my breathing, yet I am still obviously very aware of the > > > thoughts, ideas, plans, preferences, etc that all come and go as i > > > meditate. Sometimes while I sit Zazen my mind and body are very calm, at > > > other times I am anxious and have a very busy mind. Regardless of what > > > mood or state I find my mind and body, I continue to sit until the > > > predetermined time has been reached and it is time to get up. So, while > > > I sit, my aim is to just look at the wall and focus on breath. Then I > > > catch myself in thought, my practice is to just return to the present. > > > Now, precisely this is what I am working on currently: as I catch myself > > > in thought, I try not to think the words "just come back," rather, I am > > > trying to become more proficient in just "doing" the "mental action" of > > > "just coming back" without thinking it in words. I have been noticing > > > that over the last couple of weeks with some determination I am becoming > > > better at this. I also appreciate and value the this "mirrored > > > reflection" ability of awareness, it is very subtle. To be able to just > > > let the thoughts come and go on their own accord without pushing them > > > away forcibly or making effort to keep them, this is a practice that i > > > feel requires a substantial amount of training. But, like I said > > > earlier, what I am mainly working on right now is trying not to think > > > phrases like "just come back," instead to simply... come back. > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Matt. > > > > I was asthmatic as a child and as a young man found attempting to > > > > concentrate on my breathing had rather unpleasant consequences. > > > > I tried many meditative techniques and finally found that simply > > > > watching what occured in my mind was most effective. I had heard of > > > > reflective meditation and while the suggested technique didn't do it > > > > for me the idea of reflection of holding a mirror to my mind, a mirror > > > > in which to watch what occurred in it turned out to be very effective > > > > and I progressed quite quickly once I learnt to. As I progressed I > > > > found myself tempted to interfere with what I saw occuring, this slowed > > > > my progress untill I began to realise I was not seeing everything and > > > > later as I progressed further the temptation to interfere resulted in > > > > unpleasant effects so that I quickly ceased to fall to such temptation. > > > > Eventually I found I was able to induce those states that other > > > > meditative techniques suggested, through reflective awareness. > > > > > > > > So apart from indulging myself in the above self expression you can see > > > > how one technique can lead to another. You say you know from practising > > > > meditation on your breath that through it you can also enter a state of > > > > mental stillness. So no effort goes without result there is only what > > > > you are yet to discover. To me it sounds forced and the force of habit > > > > but you must work atleast to some degree with your own nature I do not > > > > mean to insult. To myself my technique sounds vain and self indulgent > > > > and it is. But has worked for me quite well. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rewrisk, thank you for your reply. Your considerate words are > > > > > encouraging and wise. As far as my technique, I am fortunate enough > > > > > to live fairly close by to a Zen meditation center of the Soto > > > > > lineage. So, at home and at the center in my Zazen, the only object > > > > > of my meditation is the breath. I have become quite familiar with > > > > > several walls and love them dearly. :) Well, it is actually time to > > > > > sit for the night, so again, thank you, and have a pleasant > > > > > evening/day. > > > > > --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > I misread your; 'the "great matter of birth and death."' > > > > > > I am heartened that you do not believe in reincarnation or life > > > > > > after death. > > > > > > I apologise to you, clearly I mistook my audience. > > > > > > > > > > > > You say 'I should hope I don't ever feel that I have reached a > > > > > > "place" in my understanding'. And I am minded that I have found > > > > > > many a "place" in my understanding but none I could rest on my > > > > > > laurels in. I took rest as I had to and while I may have tried to > > > > > > superimpose meaning on that I found meaning despite doing so. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you should wish to discuss meditative technique? > > > > > > I myself have found a reflective awareness the most usefull. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all respect to you, rewisk, you have made a lot of > > > > > > > assumptions about me without knowing me. I do not believe in > > > > > > > reincarnation, or life after death. These are things I cannot > > > > > > > know, because I have not died. And as far as how long it > > > > > > > "should" take for a practitioner to "attain" anything, who is to > > > > > > > say? I should hope I don't ever feel that I have reached a > > > > > > > "place" in my understanding, I wish to just experience my life in > > > > > > > the present moment with the growing of my understanding of > > > > > > > Emptiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to have to tell you this Matt but you will not survive > > > > > > > > your death. > > > > > > > > Some people seem to think that life could only be fair if we > > > > > > > > are reincarnated but they fail to recognise that if life was > > > > > > > > fair you would have to pay for your advantages and not just > > > > > > > > your sins. If life is fair then it can't be a gift. > > > > > > > > Six years huh? > > > > > > > > It only took me three and less than a year after I got serious > > > > > > > > about it. I do not say this to boast only I wonder about you > > > > > > > > meditative technique? I suppose if I include the time of my > > > > > > > > initial curiosity maybe four or so. > > > > > > > > I felt great need though, likely this is the difference. > > > > > > > > Still I would expect any person who regularly practised an > > > > > > > > effective form of meditation to atleast have attained a sense > > > > > > > > of thier personal illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myself, I do not feel that it is a matter of salvation. The > > > > > > > > > matter, is the "great matter of birth and death." One of my > > > > > > > > > favorite authors, Stephen Batchelor, in his book -Alone with > > > > > > > > > others- says that the "aim" is for "the optimum mode of > > > > > > > > > being." To me what this says is, that the aim of life would > > > > > > > > > be living in awareness, as you grow and age through the > > > > > > > > > years, hopefully you will become wiser. I recently had > > > > > > > > > Dokusan with one of my teachers, and she said that Zen > > > > > > > > > practice and enlightenment is kind of like in those old > > > > > > > > > cartoons, when someone is about to receive a gift and they > > > > > > > > > are told NOT to look. In the cartoons, we always see them > > > > > > > > > peeking with one eye at the gift before it is given to them. > > > > > > > > > So, I have been practicing since 2006, I have never had an > > > > > > > > > "awakening experience," and that is fine with me. Zazen has > > > > > > > > > taught me many things, and I know not to "peek," or in other > > > > > > > > > words, to conceptualize what I think enlightenment is and > > > > > > > > > then strive for it. Rather, I just live my daily life, > > > > > > > > > always, constantly coming back to direct experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
