Now, when you say "lay" terms, do you mean terms that have nothing to do with 
zen practice and its results?  If so, this may not be the best forum to post 
such a question.

I am a lay practitioner, by the way, and not a monastic.

In a person who is not awakened, say, a killer-for-hire, true compassion and 
wisdom are simply covered up.

In EVERY person who does not practice, true compassion is also covered.  This 
true compassion is the "zen-"compassion we've mentioned.  Such a non-practicing 
person may still seem to extend compassion at times, but as we've noted, even 
an idiot will sometimes do this.

Now, it's not guaranteed that a practitioner will have true compassion and 
wisdom just because they practice: a practitioner must also AWAKEN (even as the 
Buddha did).

In summary, and to reiterate, my claim is that compassion is covered up, in the 
killer, ...just as in any other ordinary person.  

That's why we practice.

(If you like, tell us your answer to where you think compassion is, in such a 
person, ordinary, or killer).

--Joe 

> Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote:

> I am talking about compassion in lay terms. I don't think it is automatic. 
> For example, when a mafia member kills, loots and rapes, where is the 
> compassion?




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