Joe/K, 'In lay terms' means in general, from a general perspective, including the point of view of a senior zenist, and that from an idiot like me. What are the results of the compassion, whether it is cultivated, or developed spontaneously? Of suddenly compassion arrives 'just this'? None of us live isolatedly. How do other people see your compassion? Anthony
________________________________ From: Kristopher Grey <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 13 June 2012, 23:00 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Self Illusion Where does this 'practice' begin and end? If an answer appears, if there are reasons and results, such practice is too full of itself. K On 6/13/2012 10:00 AM, Joe wrote: >Now, when you say "lay" terms, do you mean terms that have nothing to do with >zen practice and its results? If so, this may not be the best forum to post >such a question. > >I am a lay practitioner, by the way, and not a monastic. > >In a person who is not awakened, say, a killer-for-hire, true compassion and >wisdom are simply covered up. > >In EVERY person who does not practice, true compassion is also covered. This >true compassion is the "zen-"compassion we've mentioned. Such a non-practicing >person may still seem to extend compassion at times, but as we've noted, even >an idiot will sometimes do this. > >Now, it's not guaranteed that a practitioner will have true compassion and >wisdom just because they practice: a practitioner must also AWAKEN (even as >the Buddha did). > >In summary, and to reiterate, my claim is that compassion is covered up, in >the killer, ...just as in any other ordinary person. > >That's why we practice. > >(If you like, tell us your answer to where you think compassion is, in such a >person, ordinary, or killer). > >--Joe > >> Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > >> I am talking about compassion in lay terms. I don't think it is automatic. >> For example, when a mafia member kills, loots and rapes, where is the >> compassion? > >
