Mike, I hope you also work on a Greek politician who initiates austarity at the expense of the pensioned people, also on those who will discard austerity so that the economy will be in chaos. Anthony
________________________________ From: mike brown <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012, 8:01 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Self Illusion K, Ultimately there is no seeking - there is just action without doing (wu-wei). Others can label this action 'compassion', or not, but the action still stands. The person who benefits from such action cares not if it is the hand of an enlightened Zen master or the hand of the lowest sewerage worker. We practice compassion for other sentient beings and not for an indication of our own spiritual progress. I can only speak for myself, but compasssion for the CEO of a multi-national insurance company is an on-going work in progress and is not something that comes - like a set of steak - knives with satori. Mike --- On Thu, 14/6/12, Kristopher Grey <[email protected]> wrote: >From: Kristopher Grey <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Self Illusion >To: [email protected] >Date: Thursday, 14 June, 2012, 9:20 > > > >Yes, that was the point (pointless though it may be). > >What you share here is as good a discourse as can be offered - such practice >as you describe as good a practice as can be practiced - though seeking >anything (good/bad or otherwise appearing other than this) via such actions >just hands us that same priceless/worthless coin... > >Some leave it lie, some pick it up, some tuck it away for 'someday', some >polish it regularly, some toss it into the fountain of awareness and watch the >ripples... > >Whatever happens, It's just change. > >K > > >On 6/13/2012 2:33 PM, mike brown wrote: > >>K, >> >>The prescription/description of compassion you mentioned are just 2 sides of >>the same coin. The coin itself is essentially being not blind to suffering. I >>don't know what enlightenment means for you, but for me it is awakening to >>the seemless unfolding of moment into moment without anything being added to >>it (Especially discursive). In an instant we can be 'blind' to this just as >>easily as we can be to compassion. That's why I practice and practice and >>practice. >> >>Mike >> >>--- On Thu, 14/6/12, Kristopher Grey <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>From: Kristopher Grey <[email protected]> >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Self Illusion >>>To: [email protected] >>>Date: Thursday, 14 June, 2012, 4:06 >>> >>> >>> >>>In defending your points, you miss the point. My comments were not a >>>critique, but a simple pointing that may offer a means of resolution of any >>>apparent differences regarding 'cultivation'. >>> >>>But since you bring it up, can you not see that this claim that you are >>>unenlightened proves only that your seeking for proof either way fills both >>>eyes to the point you can't see? >>> >>>K >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On 6/13/2012 1:49 PM, mike brown wrote: >>> >>>>k, >>>> >>>>I'm not arrogant enough to claim that my world view is entirely my own, all >>>>dreamt up on my ownsome, and so I acknowledge that there are teachers and >>>>teachings that have nudged this world view along. I can, however, >>>>differentiate for myself what compasssion in action is and what is merely >>>>navel gazing as to the nature of compassion. I'm not enlightened, and from >>>>what I can tell, no one on this forum is. Please feel free to tell me >>>>otherwise. So, to describe compassion as the action of a Buddha is all very >>>>well, but how do you know? Read it somewhere? Personally, until I'm fully >>>>enlightened, I'll admit to having to work on cultivating compassion in the >>>>same way as bringing my concentration back to the moment cultivates my >>>>mindfullness. >>>> >>>>Mike >>>> >>>>--- On Thu, 14/6/12, Kristopher Grey <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>From: Kristopher Grey <[email protected]> >>>>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Self Illusion >>>>>To: [email protected] >>>>>Date: Thursday, 14 June, 2012, 2:44 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>This argument you make, is it your own or one someone else once made to >>>>>you you have adopted? Is this teaching simply a prescription for action >>>>>from some respected dharma doctor, or a description of the nature of such >>>>>action - an expression of dharma? >>>>> >>>>>In other words: >>>>> >>>>>Do you cultivate compassion through your actions, or is the cultivation >>>>>itself compassion in action? Compassionately waiting for you to >>>>>effortlessly realize this was never not so.... >>>>> >>>>>K >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On 6/13/2012 11:52 AM, mike brown wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>ED, >>>>>> >>>>>>Maybe everyone on this forum intuitively understands what compassion is, >>>>>>but I would argue that it is still something that can be cultivated. When >>>>>>we begin practicing metta meditation, we usually start with those closest >>>>>>to us and then work towards people we don't know and then even include >>>>>>our enemies. Doesn't this indicate the difficulty of having compassion >>>>>>for all sentient beings? It's easy to say that we do, but much more >>>>>>difficult in practice. Feeling compassion for orphans in a war is a lot >>>>>>easier than feeling compassion for a serial rapist. I agree with Bill >>>>>>that tabeling it as such isn't necessary, but I'd argue further that >>>>>>compassion is cultivated thru practice. >>>>>> >>>>>>Mike >>>>>> >>>>>>--- On Thu, 14/6/12, ED <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>From: ED <[email protected]> >>>>>>>Subject: [Zen] Re: The Self Illusion >>>>>>>To: [email protected] >>>>>>>Date: Thursday, 14 June, 2012, 1:34 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Mike - >>>>>>>I do - as does everyone else in this forum, IMO. I think that Bill in >>>>>>>his message below has answered the question as to what a zenist should >>>>>>>'do' about compassion. >>>>>>>--ED >>>>>>> >>>>>>>--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ED, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>Again, if you don't intuitively understand what compassion is then >>>>>>>asking isn't going to get you closer to it. . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>>--- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ED, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 'Compassion' is not something you need to think about, much less >>>>>>>strive to cultivate - any more than you have to strive to be hungry. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ...Bill! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
