Frogs sit like Buddha
On seeing the morning star
None lets fly their tongue
K
On 7/1/2012 5:45 PM, Anthony Wu wrote:
Edgar,
It is difficult to 'open my eyes' to true nature. Sakyamuni got
enlightened while sitting. But that is not the 'zen enlightenment' per
se. Nevertheless, it is the greatgrandfather of zen, which carries the
gene.
Anthony
*From:* Edgar Owen <[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected]
*Sent:* Sunday, 1 July 2012, 21:32
*Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: zen is zen is zen
Anthony,
Zazen is one practice. But there is only ONE way of realizing true
nature and that is simply opening your eyes to it. You can open your
eyes whenever and wherever you are. You don't have to be in a temple
or doing zazen. That's an illusion.
In fact recall the recorded enlightenment accounts in Zen literature.
I challenge you to quote a single one that occurred during zazen.
There may be a few, no doubt there are some, but the vast majority
were while performing some mundane (or not so mundane) action in the
world or interacting with a master.
Zazen is meditation, it is NOT enlightenment. Big difference. In zazen
one removes consciousness from forms so as to more clearly experience
the underlying reality of forms. But Realization is experiencing that
underlying reality IN forms as well as when forms are not present.
Realization is 24/7 not just when sitting in zazen.....
Edgar
On Jul 1, 2012, at 9:19 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:
Edgar,
Zazen is an important way of realizing true nature, though it is not
the only way. The story about Nanyue Huairang, one of Huineng;s key
disciples tells about this. He saw his own disciple Mazu Daoyi (Baso)
sitting zazen daily, and suddenly started grinding a brick. When
asked what he was doing, the answer was he was making a mirror. Again
he was questioned how he made a mirror out of a brick. His reply was
that if anyone could be enlightened by zazen, he should be able to
make a mirror from a brick. Baso realized his mistake and worked
harder with his teacher (the story does not elaborate how he worked
harder). Eventually he was enlightened. Please note Baso is well
upstream of the cat killing Nanzen and the mooing Joshu in the Rinzai
lineage.
Anthony
*From:* Edgar Owen <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Sunday, 1 July 2012, 20:51
*Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: zen is zen is zen
Joe,
Total nonsense that " ... there is no Zen without zazen"..
Zen is simply realization of the true nature of reality and reality
is everywhere all the time, not just in zazen...
Edgar
On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:30 AM, Joe wrote:
Hey, I dunno, as we say in these 50 US-of-A States.
I've been practicing since 1973, and earlier, if you count the time
before I poured myself into Hatha Yoga classes. I've always been a nut.
All I know is that there is no Zen without zazen.
There are many ideas, notions, popular informal identifications of
what zen is, or may be (no, there is no doubt!, in the Popular
mind), but... most of it is fluff, undigested organic material. It
should be composted.
The best is to align yourself with a teacher and a sangha. That is
what we all do, who have some hard-won opening, or easy life
afterwards. ;-) Zazen has to be continued, no matter who, no matter
what. The many poisons arise endlessly. Zazen is a yoga for the
body. There is no "mind". Mind is a fiction created by delusion.
It's forgivable, but only to a point; but, mostly, people who
believe in mind are insufferable.
It's never too soon to begin a practice. Really, it takes a teacher
and a sangha. ...Unless you are unique in the history of our old
Planet. Join a sangha and sit zazen NOW. Attend sesshin(s), as soon
as possible. Let's compare notes afterwards! I mean, only for fun,
compare notes... . Settle for no less than 7-day sesshin(s). It
takes at least 3 days to settle-in. After three days, things become
sweet.
We might see eye-to-eye, like nobody's business, afterward(s). One
eye open to wisdom is momentous. You'll see. ;-)
Pardon, if this seems obscure. I hope it's clear as ice to many here.
--Joe
> Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Â thanks joe..zen is swift and zen "makes no bones"...zen "breaks
bones"
> swift insight
> Â is that not the zen way?
