Anthony, Don't get me wrong, I love the insights and wisdom of the awakened Zen masters, but I now choose to follow the Vipassana path. Ultimately, of course, all these rafts will be discarded, but I'm still paddling.
I think it's possible for anyone in a daily activity to accidently hit upon a jhanic state, like I did (the chances would be something like winning the lotto), but usually it's more conducive if they were concentrating intently on something (which is why it happens to Zen practioners who have no idea, or interest, in such a mind state). To the former person it would be labelled as a mystical experience. To the latter it would be mayko. If you are talking about insight meditation (Vipassana) per se, then a teacher would say to stay with the feeling in the heart region for a moment, observe what is happening, and then move away. Is the sensation pleasant? Is it a solid 'block' of sensation or is it made up of many different, more subtle, sensations? Is it fleeting? Does it make you want to attach to the sensation? Does it arise and pass like other sensations? etc. The insights are more important that than the experience itself. In metta (loving-kindness) meditation ,however, absolutely no problem to sit with the sensation of the Heart Chakra opening and sharing that with the world. There is a feeling of a vortex of energy in this area and I think that is recognised in Buddhism, hence the old dichotomy in the translation of shin - mind or heart? Mike ________________________________ From: Anthony Wu <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2012, 9:58 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen Mike, Do you think your 'mystic experience' is more important, or the vipassanan 'heart chakra' is (I may make a mistake to.link the chakra thing to vipassana? Which way are you practising now? Anthony From: Kristopher Grey <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2012, 2:46 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen Thank you for sharing that Mike. KG On 7/31/2012 7:33 PM, mike brown wrote: >Joe, > > >Oh yes, talk about the 'moonlight' of Wisdom and the crystal-like purity of >objects is no artistic licence. I've taken the liberty of posting below an >account of a mystical experience I posted on another forum many years ago. I >have also posted on this forum (not so long ago) some of the experiences I've >had with my Heart Chakra on Vipassana retreats (If I find it I'll re-post, if >you'd like). I do this for your amusement only! (and please excuse the >unsophisticated descriptions I blurted out below...): > > >http://pub5.bravenet.com/guestbook/395054200/#bn-guestbook-1-1-395054200/prev/22 > > > >April 14th 2004 >02:18:37 AM >Please provide a nickname (required) >Mike >Give your experience a short title >No-Mind >How old were you when this happened? >36 >Are you male or female? >male >Please describe your experience >I had my first experience 3 years ago and I still find it difficult to put >into words. Impossible, actually. Also important to mention is the fact that >during the experience I had no religious beliefs or knowledge. However, since >the experience I have been practicing Zen Buddhism and I can know describe >some facets of the experience using Zen terminology (something I couldn't do >immediately after the experience). > >I was watching the evening news on t.v (it was about 7pm) when I heard a kind of 'click' inside my head. Immediately, all the sound from the t.v seemed to suck back into the t.v. This left everything in the room in a state of crystal-like purity because along with the absence of sound there was also an absence of 'labels' on the objects within my view. Labels, names, concepts, abstractions, language, all had instantaneously vanished. Everything was in a state of 'isness' or 'suchness'. It was as if the atmosphere in the room had taken on a moon-like or crystal-like quality. > >As for me, it felt as though my head had been taken from my shoulders and I WAS the room and the objects therein. Although I had never studied Zen Buddhism up to this point I kept repeating to myself, "This is it! This is it! No mind!". It also felt as though this was the most natural and real state to be in and how foolish not to realise it before! I also really felt as though I would be able to come back to this 'place' at will. I wish! This period of discovery lasted about 10-15 minutes. > >What followed was a state of bliss and ecstasy. It began with a warm liquid feeling running up and down my spine (very kundalini!) accompanied by an adrenalin-like feeling of love. Very orgasmic without the sexual side. This state seemed to be preceded by a feeling of amazing discovery - no less than the meaning of life and the reason for religion. I also believe that my breathing was suspended during this time. Then the most amazing feeling of 'oneness' occured when I looked out the window and saw a tree. It really felt as though the tree was in on the whole episode! I couldn't stop saying, "Thank you!". The tree shimered in a golden, violet and blue light although I know it wasn't a hallucination. I was the tree and the tree was me. At this point everything felt dark although my eyes were open and it wasn't dark in a lights off kind of way. Also, I could feel my hands moving up into a benediction type position. But here's the strange thing. I consciously brought myself out of this unbelievably beautiful state! At the time it felt like I needed to share the experience with someone, but also I think I wasn't ready to lose my sense of self. > >After I had come back to earth a bit I felt 2 things. One, that this was the most holy experience anyone had ever had!! Or two, that this experience somehow preceded a mental illness. The next day I scoured the library for material and discovered 'mysticism'. That was a great relief - to discover that lots of people have had similar experiences. For the sake of brevity, of all the religions I researched Zen feels the most relevant FOR ME to pursue. I have had many profound experiences since and definately feel like I am now on a spiritual path. >
