take it as it comes..no frills...you do not have a choice ..merle
Merle,
>that's when zen is most needed mike...to get you through the day
Should I take it straight or on the rocks? ; )
Mike
________________________________
From: Merle Lester <merlewiit...@yahoo.com>
To: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 3 September 2012, 22:31
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
that's when zen is most needed mike...to get you through the day...merle
Ultimately, yes - in day to day living, no. At least not in the story of my
life. It's so easy to claim Buddhahood when things are going well, but just
watch that little house of cards coming crashing down when you get a nasty
hemorrhoids on a hot, sweaty day or your girlfriend cheats on you. That's why
even something as simple as being mindful of the breath can be the most
difficult thing in the world in such circumstances. You can philosophise your
way out of it here quite easily, but meanwhile back in the real world [insert
exegesis on 'real world' here]..
Mike
________________________________
From: Kristopher Grey <k...@kgrey.com>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 3 September 2012, 1:34
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
This matter of whether there is or isn't isn't someone to suffer is all smoke
and mirrors. Suffering appears. This is clear enough. What is this notion of
"liberation from" but self relating to self? What appears, appears. What of it?
Clarity, selfless. No self that need to see into itself. No such
conceptual contortions required.
Don't settle for nothing. Don't attach to anything. This takes no
effort.
KG
On 9/2/2012 5:35 PM, mike brown wrote:
>Kris,
>
>
>There is no one who suffers, but only after the realisation that there isn't
>even a mind for suffering to happen to is there liberation from it. "Clarity"
>here reads as insight.
>
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Kristopher Grey <k...@kgrey.com>
>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 20:23
>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
>
>
>
>Then you still know too much. ;)
>
>If it so clear as that, there is nothing to
see. The 'obscuration' all that may show the
way. What you are seeing as separate only
appears to be. All a matter of how you see it.
So who is leading who? Who suffers? In seeking
perfection, it forever eludes.
>
>The clear minded are equally empty headed.
Don't throw the Buddha out with the bathwater.
>
>KG
>
>PS - Expresses simpler/more obviously
wordlessly - see: 'Wabi Sabi' -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi
>
>
>
>On 9/2/2012 12:32 PM, mike brown wrote:
>
>
>>Kris,
>>
>>
>>>I might point out that apparent obscuration is no less reality than apparent
>>>clarity
>>
>>Reality is certainly there regardless, but
reality seen with obscuration leads to
suffering, whereas reality seen with
clarity will lead to the cessation of
suffering. That's all I need to know and
that is my witness.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Kristopher Grey <k...@kgrey.com>
>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 16:11
>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
>>
>>
>>
>>I might point out that apparent obscuration is no less reality than apparent
>>clarity. In doing so, this point only dances around itself - offers nothing
>>you can't realize directly.
>>
>>What can anyone say in
response that you will not
directly experience (realize)
as some aspect of this
reality/realization- whether
you realize it or not - just
as when experiencing
meditation/not meditation?
>>
>>This more or less business is
you triangulating your
position. Nothing more,
nothing less.
>>
>>KG
>>
>>
>>
>>On 9/2/2012 5:57 AM, mike
brown wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Edgar,
>>>
>>>
>>>Wouldn't you say tho, that reality is less obscured during, or just after, a
>>>long retreat of meditation?
>>>
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net>
>>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 1:13
>>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Mike,
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, it's reality either way, but that reality is always changing as
>>>happening continually flows through the present moment. But however it
>>>changes it is still reality....
>>>
>>>
>>>Edgar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sep 1, 2012, at 6:09 PM, mike brown wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Edgar,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Would you say that the world (inner/outer) you look at now is the same as
>>>>when you're at the end of a sesshin?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net>
>>>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>>>Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2012, 18:44
>>>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>ED,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Stop practicing and just BE your Buddha Nature!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Edgar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Sep 1, 2012, at 12:22 PM, ED wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Edgar,
>>>>>
>>>>>Therefore,
although each
of us is
complete, we
need to
practice
>>>>>diligently at
all times with
no objective
in mind?
>>>>>
>>>>>--ED
>>>>>
>>>>>--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe and
Merle,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is
no 'goal' of
enlightenment
to be achieved
without which
you
>>>>>imagine you
are
incomplete....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is
no
incompleteness.
This
understanding
is an
essential
aspect
>>>>>of
realization...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wham!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Edgar
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
