Jim, IMO...and some 'tough love'...
This Bodhisattva fantasy is an attachment of yours. Drop it! I have an original 'zen story' for that: Pay attention to the kindly Bodhisattvas that look after you when you fly and remember their words, "Be sure to put you your own oxygen mask first before attempting to help those around you." Just sit! ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "jfnewell7" <jfnewell7@...> wrote: > > What I am lacking is the ability to project an insight which would almost > instantly rescue every being in the universe from suffering. > > That probably, actually, isn't even a possible goal. However, I am still > lacking the ability to quickly rescue a reasonable number of beings on a > single planet. > > Jim > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > Jim, > > > > What do you imagine you are lacking? > > > > There is nothing lacking - ever. Let me rephrase that. Individual things > > can be lacking but Buddha Nature is never lacking since everything is a > > manifestation of Buddha Nature... It's just a matter of realizing that > > directly... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Oct 6, 2012, at 11:32 PM, jfnewell7 wrote: > > > > > I don't see how. There are good teachers who can do a lot of things I > > > can't do. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â you might already be enlightened.... have you considered this?. > > > > .searching for the light with a broomstick is about what you seem to be > > > > doing here > > > > merle > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > Thank you for your thoughts. I think you are right, for after all, I am > > > > still being dualistic. The problem is that I can't find the lemon to > > > > bite into. > > > > > > > > For example, I have three kinds of "emptiness" meditations, but none of > > > > them could be correct because none of them enlighten me. Although they > > > > are incorrect, you asked about how I meditate, so I will briefly > > > > describe them. > > > > > > > > 1. Ordinary space. If I sit and don't think, there is a space without > > > > thoughts, relaxation, etc.. The space is a little like when I look at > > > > the sky. However, that hasn't enlightened me. > > > > > > > > 2. Then there is subtle space, which I discovered by trying to see what > > > > is behind my head. It is much subtler than ordinary space, not really > > > > so much seen as just sort of something I am aware of. Compared with it, > > > > ordinary space is coarse and heavy. > > > > > > > > 3. Then there is an emptiness I don't have control of, but it hasn't > > > > enlightened me. In it, I suddenly discovered that I shrunk to a point > > > > and disappeared, and am now re-expanding into my ordinary field of > > > > awareness. So it is a kind of discontinuity of consciousness - more > > > > than something like sleep. When it happens, there are unexpected ideas > > > > in my head when I have returned from the discontinuity. > > > > > > > > But none of those are right, because they didn't cause me to become > > > > enlightened. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "billsmart" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > > > Caveat: Everything I tell you is only my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > You've read a lot of books on what a lemon tastes like but now you > > > > > need to bite into the lemon and find out for yourself. The books > > > > > can't do that for you. They can encourage you and lead you up to that > > > > > point, but their usefulness ends there - and in fact I'd even say > > > > > much of what you've learned could be a hindrance to you in taking > > > > > that final step. > > > > > > > > > > The taste of the lemon (and ONLY that)is what I call Buddha Nature, > > > > > and it is non-dualistic (no taster/lemon distintion - no > > > > > subject/object). It is what I often call 'Just THIS!' When > > > > > experienced it has no name, no description - it is Just THIS! Later > > > > > we put names on it and give it a description - but then it is not the > > > > > thing itself (Just THIS!), it is our description of it. It is what > > > > > all the books you have read are trying to do. > > > > > > > > > > IMO the image you described below as called > > > > > "mental-integration-itself" is illusory - samsara. As soon as you > > > > > become aware of it as something that seems to be an "...image inside > > > > > my head, I can see all parts of the image simultaneously because > > > > > something in me is integrating the parts of the image in some way." > > > > > What you are describing here is still dualistic - there is a you, you > > > > > have a head, your head has an inside, this image is located there, > > > > > the image has parts, etc... > > > > > > > > > > The second description starts to move a little farther away from > > > > > dualism: "In a way, this transparent mental-integration-itself seems > > > > > to be in front of the image. I then de-emphasize the image so it > > > > > slips partly from awareness, while becoming more aware of the clear > > > > > empty mental-integration-itself." A lot would depend on just what you > > > > > meant by the phrase "clear empty mental-integration-itself." If you > > > > > are still clinging to a dualistic view of this, something like, 'I am > > > > > sitting, and I experience an image, and that image has parts and then > > > > > another image appears that I call the 'mental-integration' of that > > > > > first image, and then the first image disappears from my awareness > > > > > (or at least recedes into the background)- and this new image is > > > > > EMPTY'.' I'd have to again ask, what do you mean by 'empty'? > > > > > > > > > > If you mean this new image that you are now aware of that exists > > > > > inside you has no form, that's one thing. If you mean 'all is empty', > > > > > no me, no image, Just EMPTINESS!, then that is another thing entirely. > > > > > > > > > > Again, all this is just IMO. > > > > > > > > > > Before I could really offer you any advice I'd have to know what you > > > > > mean by 'mediation'. How do you do about that? If you could explain > > > > > that a little more it would help. Here's an example of how I sit > > > > > (zazen): > > > > > > > > > > I start sitting by counting my breathes, then following my breathes > > > > > and then I drop the following and there is Just THIS!. In Japanese > > > > > this is called 'shikantaza' which literally means 'just sit' or is > > > > > sometimes translated as 'no mind'. What I do NOT do is try to > > > > > visualize anything or think of anything (like a 'safe place' or a > > > > > mantra), although I know these are styles of meditation. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, and WELCOME TO THE ZEN FORUM! > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "jfnewell7" <jfnewell7@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some practice advice. In my meditation, I have become aware > > > > > > of something I will call "mental-integration-itself" although those > > > > > > words are only an approximation. I will therefore report some > > > > > > background and details, below, to see if I can get this across. > > > > > > What I need is advice on whether or not mental-integration-itself > > > > > > is enough on the path that I should spend a lot of time noticing > > > > > > it. Also, of course, if anyone sees a way I can improve on the > > > > > > mental-integration-itself awareness I have so far, I would be > > > > > > grateful. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both Dzogchen and Zen say that somehow, satori and samsara are the > > > > > > same. I have tried for years to understand what that would feel > > > > > > like. Here are a several examples from a vast number of comments: > > > > > > > > > > > > Cleary, Thomas, trans. (2002) SECRETS OF THE BLUE CLIFF RECORD, ZEN > > > > > > COMMENTS BY HAKUIN AND TENKEI, Boston& London: Shambhala > > > > > > > > > > > > Page 76, "If potential does not leave a static position, it falls > > > > > > into a sea of poison ... > > > > > > > > > > > > "[Hakuin] The entirety of this introduction applies to the example. > > > > > > `Potential' is what appears before being expressed in words; the > > > > > > `static position' is the cave of satori... > > > > > > > > > > > > "[Tenkei] If you realize an awakening but do not eliminate leaking > > > > > > of views, you stick to the absolute stasis of transcendence in the > > > > > > realm of satori, which is to `fall into a sea of poison' ... " > > > > > > > > > > > > Rabjam, Longchen, Richard Barron, trans., Padma Translation > > > > > > Committee (2001) THE PRECIOUS TREASURY OF THE BASIC SPACE OF > > > > > > PHENOMENA, Junction City" Padma Publishing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Page 7, "However things appear or sound, within the vast realm of > > > > > > basic space they do not stray from the spontaneous equalness as > > > > > > dharmakaya, awakened mind... > > > > > > > > > > > > Page 15, "On this infinite foundation, extending everywhere > > > > > > impartially, the stronghold of awakened mind does not distinguish > > > > > > between samsara and nirvana..." > > > > > > > > > > > > Norbu, Chogyal Namkhui, Adriano Clemente, and Andrew Lukianowicz > > > > > > (1999) THE SUPREME SOURCE, THE KUNJED GYALPO, THE FUNDAMENTAL > > > > > > TANTRA OF DZOGCHEN SEMDE, Ithaca: Snow Lion Publications > > > > > > > > > > > > Page 150, "I am the essence of all phenomena; nothing exists that > > > > > > is not my essence. The teachers of the three dimensions {I'm > > > > > > unclear about what "dimensions" means here, Jim} are my essence. > > > > > > The Buddhas of the three times are my essence. The four types of > > > > > > yogins are my essence. The three worlds, of desire, of form, and > > > > > > without form, too, are my manifestations. The five great elements > > > > > > are my essence. The six classes of beings are my essence. All the > > > > > > habitats and the beings living therein are my essence. Nothing > > > > > > exists that is not my essence because I am the universal root: > > > > > > there is nothing that is not contained in me ..." > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Now when I am meditating while there is an image inside my > > > > > > head, I can see all parts of the image simultaneously because > > > > > > something in me is integrating the parts of the image in some way. > > > > > > If I try to see this mental-integration-itself, the > > > > > > mental-integration-itself is like transparent space yet active. I > > > > > > can barely detect this transparent and it doesn't look like any of > > > > > > the shapes or colors of the image. In a way, this transparent > > > > > > mental-integration-itself seems to be in front of the image. I then > > > > > > de-emphasize the image so it slips partly from awareness, while > > > > > > becoming more aware of the clear empty mental-integration-itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Intellectually, the mental-integration itself which I experience > > > > > > isn't any of the shapes or colors, yet it connects all the shapes > > > > > > and colors together. So it has a little bit of form, from the > > > > > > connecting, plus it is empty. Does the fact that it looks like it > > > > > > fits Buddhist definitions mean that what I am experiencing actually > > > > > > does fit those definitions? Therefore, would it be right to > > > > > > continue to become aware of the mental-integration-itself with all > > > > > > kinds of perceptions, experiences, and situations? > > > > > > > > > > > > So that I what I need some advice on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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