Edgar,

I agree that our mental interpretations are illusory, but that doesn't mean 
that a 'flowing clock time' is real.

If there is only Now, there is no flow of time.

Now itself doesn't have a time, at least not of any duration.  I guess you 
could say it has a time of zero duration - but that's just another way to 
define Now.  It's just Now.  Like in geometry a point doesn't have any 
dimensions, only a position.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> 
> First sentence is correct. But both kinds of time are NOT illusion. The time 
> of the present moment, and the clock time that continually flows through the 
> present moment are part of the reality of the world of forms which is a 
> direct manifestation of Buddha Nature.
> 
> These are real, what is illusion is your incorrect mental interpretation of 
> them.
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 9, 2012, at 3:23 AM, billsmart wrote:
> 
> > Jim,
> > 
> > There is only Now. Past is just a memory. Future is a projection. There is 
> > only Now.
> > 
> > Time is an illusion.
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], "jfnewell7" <jfnewell7@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, of course. We don't know what Bankei meant, and wouldn't even if the 
> > > words were translated exactly, because words are inadequate to fully 
> > > describe consciousness.
> > > 
> > > In some of the world's traditions, there is a theory that all times exist 
> > > simultaneously, and we just think me are moving through time. If that is 
> > > true, then when enlightened, we would have a NOW which included all the 
> > > past and all the future, seen all at once forever.
> > > 
> > > I can't say whether or not that theory is true. I don't know whether the 
> > > real NOW moves through time, so the past really is gone and the future 
> > > really hasn't happened, or the real NOW forever includes all moments of 
> > > time.
> > > 
> > > If we could find out, it would affect our judgment of when we are seeing 
> > > accurately. For example, if NOW spreads eternally, and we see a NOW which 
> > > is only a short moment, we would know that we aren't actually seeing the 
> > > real NOW yet. On the other hand, if the real NOW is only a short moment, 
> > > then we would know that we either are seeing the real NOW, or we are 
> > > close.
> > > 
> > > But since I am unable to tell you which theory is true, I couldn't decide 
> > > whether or not your experience is true, even if I could directly detect 
> > > what is in your consciousness.
> > > 
> > > Jim 
> > > 
> > > --- In [email protected], "billsmart" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Jim,
> > > > 
> > > > Bankei did mean something profound. He was doing his best to describe 
> > > > the raw, unfiltered, holistic (non-dualistic) experience Zen Buddhists 
> > > > call Buddha Nature. He did this in the context of hearing a bell. He 
> > > > did not try to explain it. He tried to describe it.
> > > > 
> > > > He used some terms that are very important. Now these terms have been 
> > > > translated into English so we don't really know EXACTLY what he said, 
> > > > but if the translation was close then he's using terms in a way that we 
> > > > don't use them in everyday English.
> > >
> > 
> >
>




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