yes empty your mind bill!
 merle
  
I now want to add to what Joe said...

He wrote:

"Meanwhile, even if the content or concepts of the Sutra do not engage you, you 
should know that recitation is for THE BREATH. You see, our practice is a 
*physical* one."

In fact (like Suresh's recent story of the Tea Master)you must first EMPTY your 
mind of any concepts or 'understanding' of the contents/meaning of the Sutra 
before you can hope to receive the bountiful blessings of its recitation.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], "Bill!"  wrote:
>
> Below Joe wrote:
> 
> "Meanwhile, even if the content or concepts of the Sutra do not engage you, 
> you should know that recitation is for THE BREATH. You see, our practice is a 
> *physical* one."
> 
> This comment is absolutely spot-on...
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> --- In [email protected], "Joe"  wrote:
> >
> > Merle,
> > 
> > Dunno.  You brought up the Sutra.
> > 
> > I mentioned that I've studied it over some 35 years, and that the 
> > 400-character "heart" of the Heart Sutra is a prevalent feature in formal 
> > Zen practice at every Zen dojo in the world.
> > 
> > I'm sorry if these facts have hurt you, somehow.
> > 
> > If you don't yet know how the formal recitation of the Heart Sutra helps us 
> > in our practice, then you should attend 7-day sesshin at a zendo, after 
> > practicing formally for about a year or so with a teacher and sangha, and 
> > daily at home, to get the body and "mind" in a condition to be ready for 
> > intensive practice.
> > 
> > But even in ordinary daily practice at the zendo, the Heart Sutra is 
> > recited ritually by all, in Morning Service, etc., and you would therefore 
> > become very well familiar with at least the words of it: you'd recite it by 
> > heart and would not need to look at the text.
> > 
> > Meanwhile, even if the content or concepts of the Sutra do not engage you, 
> > you should know that recitation is for THE BREATH.  You see, our practice 
> > is a *physical* one.  Those who have yet to engage in it do not appreciate, 
> > and of course cannot appreciate, this fact, because they have no experience 
> > of this, and so do not know.  They may wrongly think that chanting is like 
> > prayer or invocation, or something.
> > 
> > I can't say much about painting, and I don't know what you mean by "rules" 
> > of painting, as I am not an Art teacher as you have been.
> > 
> > But in Music, I find I am a better Cellist by learning and practicing 
> > "etudes".  These are nicely musical studies -- not merely technical, 
> > exercises -- for the fingers and the ear, and for the bow-arm.  Working 
> > with them helps a player with repertoire immediately.
> > 
> > In painting, if I practice technique and paint-mixing as a beginner, please 
> > do not fault me for not yet being an expert or a virtuoso.
> > 
> > Do I fault you for knowing so little from either practice or study about 
> > the Zen tradition, yet nonetheless (your) always using the word as if it 
> > meant something in particular?  Yes.
> > 
> > Yet, I don't say you can't help yourself and others through Practice.  You 
> > say you practice already, and that's great.  We can all do a little better. 
> >  '-)
> > 
> > Practice brings stamina, health, and life, and can lead to Awakening.
> > 
> > I don't urge practice upon you, though.  There's a lot to do in life.  We 
> > choose what's important, and what's possible.  And all the rest is thrust 
> > upon us, or may seem accidental.
> > 
> > In Buddhist practice and Zen practice, we emphasize "Causes and 
> > Conditions".  It's a way to appreciate our situation, and, in the best 
> > cases, to see openings (for change).
> > 
> > --Joe
> > 
> > > Merle Lester wrote:
> > >
> > > diamonds hearts and all will be revealed!
> > 
> > Let's make a more complete list:
> > 
> > diamonds hearts spades and clubs
> > 
> > (you left out the black suits)
> > 
> > > Merle Lester  wrote:
> > >
> > > guess what joe...
> > > 
> > > you can recite whatever a trillion times but it has to have substance in 
> > > your life...
> > > 
> > > no i have not read it...
> > > to tell you the truth it just came to me in an insight..
> > > 
> > > how zen is that?...
> > > 
> > > the diamond and the heart..
> > > 
> > > so there you go..
> > > 
> > > i'm zen and you are mr. recite it... 
> > > 
> > > zen is about hitting the nail on the head instantly..
> > > 
> > > where are you coming from as you labour away day and night practising 
> > > never really "getting there"
> > > 
> > > throw your books and recitations away
> > > 
> > > open your heart then see what happens!
> > > diamonds hearts and all will be revealed!
> > > 
> > > you cannot paint by rules either joe...
> > > you have to be free to create, explore and visualise..
> > > otherwise you are just repeating  the same old crap
> > > to be truly YOU you have to let go of the props, the books the mantras 
> > > and let loose
> > > now don't tell me that isn't pure zen?
> >
>


 

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