Mike and Joe, Correct! There is nothing wrong with a little reminder for the unenlightened ones. Problem is that the reminders very often become more important than what they are supposed to remind of.
Does Buddha need to be reminded he's Buddha? Edgar On Feb 3, 2013, at 7:49 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Joe, > > I think so, too. I'm sure Edgar would scoff at the rituals performed in Zen > (especially Soto). But for me, both the precepts and rituals (how to enter > the zendo, for example) are there to remind us to be aware and awake and that > each and every movement is an opportunity for enlightenment. At the very > least they remind us of our intention of why we are entering the zendo. But > of course, some people are already too wise and far, far gone beyond for such > reminders... > > Mike > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone > > From: Joe <desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com>; > To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>; > Subject: [Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals > Sent: Sun, Feb 3, 2013 4:25:34 PM > > > Mike, > > Yes, the way some people talk sometimes, you'd think Zen has nothing to do > with ANYTHING... which is not the case (I don't mean you, Mike!). > > Some say that precepts have nothing to do with Zen; that would be a fair > judgement, if these people knew Zen intimately. > > Precepts, however, have everything to do with Zen PRACTICE. > > But Zen Practice is an endeavor or engagement that escapes through the cracks > in the mere-intellectual's mind who thinks he/she "knows" about Zen, and who, > hence, does not know it intimately (which is the only way to know it). > > I'd say that for someone wishing to awaken for the first time, Precepts are a > good tool to keep close to, and _vice versa_. Just as Zazen is. And our many > other practices. And for someone wishing to remain awake, Precepts are just > as important. As we all find out! > > In some schools, Precepts are practiced LAST, after a mature student has > passed through the entire Koan curriculum consisting of the koans of the > Mumonkan, Blue Cliff Record, Book of Serenity, AND the Nanto or "hard" koans; > some also add the Warrior koans. > > Precepts are not trifling, nor to be trifled with, in general. > > Precepts are tools for Awakening. No wonder some don't recognize them! > > Precepts are simply the behavior of a Buddha. > > We know that there are some poseurs who claim to have nothing to do with them > because the same poseurs in fact have nothing to do with Practice (!), and, > demonstrably, neither have they ever awakened (and time is shorter, now, all > the time...). > > No skin off our teeth! But, we rail against the blatherings of such slackers > -- self-satisfied, merely intellectual ego-maniacs, slanderers, and > rumor-mongers -- here, for the damage they may do to practitioners who are > nowadays beginning, or hearing about "Precepts" for the first, second, or > third time, say, before beginning a formal or fundamental practice at home or > elsewhere, which is undertaken as more than a lark. > > Recriminations such as this may not be popular; I think that's natural, and > good. > > --Joe > > > uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Edgar, > > You're quite correct. Day visitors and temple sight-seers don't need to take > any precepts as long as they don't disturb the serious meditators ; ) > > Mike > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone > > > Edgar wrote: > > More true believer orthodox crap from Joe! Zen has nothing to do with taking > any precepts..... > > >
