LOL! The fisherman tells the fish how to swim!

Edgar



On Feb 20, 2013, at 10:14 PM, Bill! wrote:

> Edgar,
> 
> I'm distressed and rather embarrassed to have to inform you on such a public 
> forum as this that you have a teeny-weeny though not insignificant 
> misunderstanding of what Buddha Nature is.
> 
> You can read about it, write about it and think about it all you want but 
> until you actually experience it you will forever be doomed to missing the 
> mark.
> 
> My advice to you is to just sit (zazen); or better yet get thee to a Zen 
> Buddhist sangha with a teacher and let him tell you to just sit. Until you do 
> that you'll be forever surfing around on the illusory waves of form that you 
> yourself are stirring up in your intellect all the while thinking you're 
> really going somewhere.
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen wrote:
> >
> > Bill,
> > 
> > Wrong! All beings and in fact everything that exists 'has Buddha Nature' 
> > because Buddha Nature (tao or ontological energy) is what everything in the 
> > universe is made out of... It is THE ONLY substance of reality because it 
> > is being or existence itself.
> > 
> > Edgar
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:54 PM, Bill! wrote:
> > 
> > > Siska,
> > > 
> > > The premise is 'all SENTIENT beings have Buddha Nature', not just 'all 
> > > beings'. 'Sentient' is very important because it is that quality that is 
> > > Buddha Nature.
> > > 
> > > How about I go to an outside source to address the uneasiness you've 
> > > expressed in resolving how all have Buddha Nature but only some are aware 
> > > of it?
> > > 
> > > The Parable of the Hidden Gem
> > > 
> > > "There once lived a poor man who used to drink too much. On one occasion, 
> > > he visited a wealthy friend, who offered him cup after cup of wine. He 
> > > enjoyed himself and drank so much that finally he fell sound asleep. His 
> > > friend had to leave on business. He knew that his poor companion 
> > > generally lost his wits when drinking, but he felt sorry for him and 
> > > wanted to help him in some way. So before leaving, he fastened a 
> > > priceless gem to the garment of the poor man as a gift. Then he departed, 
> > > certain that his poor friend would be delighted when he awoke and 
> > > discovered his new wealth.
> > > 
> > > But things did not work out as the rich friend had planned. The drunken 
> > > man finally awoke, but he did not notice the gem which was sewn into his 
> > > garment. He got bleary-eyed and went out, believing he possessed no more 
> > > than a headache. He had no home nor steady work to go to, so he wandered 
> > > about from one place to another for many years, living a miserable 
> > > existence.
> > > 
> > > One day he ran into his old friend. The friend was shocked by his 
> > > wretched appearance. "What's wrong with you?" he asked. "I left a 
> > > priceless gem sewn in your garment that last evening we were together. I 
> > > expected you to sell it, invest the money in some business, and get on 
> > > your feet at last. Why didn't you do so?"
> > > 
> > > The poor man was bewildered. "Gem?" he asked. "What gem?" He felt along 
> > > the lining of his garment, and was astonished to find a precious stone 
> > > attached to it. He had been a wealthy man all this time without realizing 
> > > it."
> > > 
> > > - Lotus Sutra, Chapter 8
> > > 
> > > This parable is an analogy of how a sentient being can have Buddha Nature 
> > > but not be aware of it.
> > > 
> > > ...Bill!
> > > 
> > > --- In [email protected], siska_cen@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bill,
> > > > 
> > > > What is the fundamental importance of the premise "All beings have 
> > > > Buddha Nature" if one is not aware of it? 
> > > > 
> > > > There is Buddha Nature, but some people are aware of it and some don't. 
> > > > So, what does this 'embedded' Buddha Nature implies?
> > > > 
> > > > It doesn't feel right, feels like duality also, but I don't know how to 
> > > > describe it more clearly.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Siska
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "Bill!" 
> > > > Sender: [email protected]
> > > > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:31:42 
> > > > To: [email protected]>
> > > > Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Fw: peek a boo ...
> > > > 
> > > > Siska,
> > > > 
> > > > In case Edgar is having a 'zen moment' and fails to respond I, as 
> > > > co-moderator, will cover this one.
> > > > 
> > > > IMO...
> > > > 
> > > > - All sentient beings have Buddha Nature.
> > > > - The oft abused term 'enlightenment' means you are aware of Buddha 
> > > > Nature to some degree or other
> > > > 
> > > > So...an 'unenlightened being' would be either a being that is not 
> > > > sentient or a sentient being who is not aware of Buddha Nature.
> > > > 
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > > 
> > > > --- In [email protected], siska_cen@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Edgar,
> > > > > 
> > > > > If I remember correctly, you were the one who told me, when I first 
> > > > > joined this group to learn more about Zen, that all beings have 
> > > > > Buddha nature, already enlightened in the first place.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Now you are saying there are unenlightened beings....
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't get it....
> > > > > 
> > > > > Siska
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Edgar Owen 
> > > > > Sender: [email protected]
> > > > > Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:10:28 
> > > > > To: [email protected]>
> > > > > Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Fw: peek a boo ...
> > > > > 
> > > > > Siska,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Because they ruined the perfect naturally produced forms of the 
> > > > > stones by cementing them all together in a mindless unenlightened 
> > > > > mish mash. Did you see Merle's photo?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Of course in the deepest sense everything is reality therefore 
> > > > > everything is Zen, but this artificial concoction is the reality of 
> > > > > illusion, produced by illusion, by unenlightened beings, and thus is 
> > > > > Zen only when seen as NOT being zen!
> > > > > 
> > > > > Edgar
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Feb 19, 2013, at 10:25 AM, siska_cen@ wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Doesn't Zen include everything, including the so called act of dumb 
> > > > > > Chinese? Why is this one Zenless?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Siska
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > From: Edgar Owen 
> > > > > > Sender: [email protected]
> > > > > > Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:49:00 -0500
> > > > > > To: [email protected]>
> > > > > > ReplyTo: [email protected]
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Fw: peek a boo ...
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Here is where Zenless dumb Chinese absolutely ruin the beautiful 
> > > > > > natural shapes of these stones by pasting them together in a hodge 
> > > > > > podge....
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Edgar
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Feb 14, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
> > > > > > 
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> 

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