Mike, Siska, Joe, Merle, Edgar, et al... I've deliberately stayed out the 'strawberry' portion of this thread but it seems to be causing so much consternation that I'd now like to add my 2-cent's worth:
First of all although I'm very familiar with this story I've never seen it listed/categorized as a koan - but there are many, many different koan collections and I certainly have not read them all. Also it could be turned into a koan by simple asking a question or stating a request which references the koan. It seems to be just a story representing life's seemingly inescapable series of suffering (hungry tigers, steep cliffs, dualist mice cutting into what little comfort you've grabbed onto), but then also illustrates the method to escape that suffering through the realization of Buddha Nature which of course is represented by a sensual experience - tasting the strawberry. The problem with this is however the part of the koan which would need to be referenced is the same part you are all having a problem resolving - the 'sweet' part. (AND BY THE WAY...what I've just written would definitely NOT be any part of any answer or response to this story if used as a koan. It's just an intellectual modeling of the story.) As I think all of you know 'sweet' is a perception, a judgement. IMO (as opposed to 'what you all know') 'sweet' is not an experience. In other word 'sweet' is not a good description of the experience of Buddha Nature but a description of the perception of the human intellect. IMO if this story were to be used as a koan it could remain pretty much intact except when the strawberry was eaten it would better be described as an experience such as 'Ah!', rather than a perception such as 'sweet or sour', 'good or bad', etc... This 'Ah!' would be the target of any question or request if this story were used as a koan. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "mike" <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Siska, > > Subtle sensations in the body-mind arise and pass without being perceivd all > the time, but some are gross enough to be perceived. These perceptions are > then felt as good, bad or neutral. So yes, of course they are illusory > because they are constructed by the mind - the object/phenomena themselves > are empty of such labels. But in the relative they are real (but can still be > seen thru). It's a balance. Why resist that the strawberry tastes "sweet" (or > sour if that's your thing!)? Otherwise life would be like making love on > Valium. > > Mike > > > --- In [email protected], siska_cen@ wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they get > > > passed the "He said - she said" current thread.. > > > > Looks like we have now moved to strawberries thread ;) > > > > > If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not experienced? > > > > They are experiences. But why should the sensations be experienced? > > > > Siska > > -----Original Message----- > > From: uerusuboyo@ > > Sender: [email protected] > > Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 08:47:06 > > To: BillSmart@<BillSmart@>; zen group<[email protected]> > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: Advaita > > > > <br/>Bill!,<br/><br/>I'm interested in your point that there is no observer > > when sitting shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not > > experienced? If they are experienced, who or what is experiencing them? > > <br/><br/>I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when > > they get passed the "He said - she said" current > > thread..<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
