what cliff?..not another myth?...merle
Merle,
If you understand that the relative and absolute go hand in hand, then what do
you make of the koan being discussed? (The man hanging from a cliff one)
Mike
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________________________________
From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>;
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>;
Subject: [Zen] relatively absolute
Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 8:10:30 AM
butting in mike..what's your point..we all know absolute and relative go hand
in hand...what are you driving too?...merle
Joe,
I just got this from tree leaf.org. It's the second line from the poem with a
commentary below it and supports my point about the truth of the absolute and
the relative.
"When you reflect it you become vast, where you embody it you are spiritually
uplifted".
Vast without boundaries, uplifted yet securely grounded in one's seat.
In other words, this vastness (absolute) experienced in shikantaza is brought
into the relative when it is embodied. How else could the universe play if not
thru us!
Mike
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________________________________
From: Joe <[email protected]>;
To: <[email protected]>;
Subject: [Zen] Re: Advaita
Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 1:32:52 AM
Mike,
In practicing Silent-Illumination as transmitted in Ch'an, one is advised to
sit, and, when the breath has settled, be aware of the body sitting there.
This can be "total body-awareness", if possible, otherwise perhaps be aware of
what is most observable. It is good if you can be aware of just the total
body, sitting. Perhaps after a time -- in any one sitting, or perhaps over
months or years -- the feeling of a body may disappear. Then, one simply
maintains awareness of the lack of feeling of a body, and whatever it entails,
in terms of sensation or lack of sensation. One is still to be very clear
about "everything", even the environment.
The best instruction on this is the original one, by Ch'an Master Hongzhi, in
the form of the poem, "Silent Illumination". The modern Ch'an master, Master
Sheng Yen, has translated this, and has commentary on it in two books in
English, esp. in his THE METHOD OF NO METHOD -- The CH'AN PRACTICE OF SILENT
ILLUMINATION.
And, Taigen Dan Leighton and Yi Wu have the excellent little volume,
CULTIVATING THE EMPTY FIELD (2000).
Practice of the method does not include asking who or what is experiencing:
that would be Koan practice, or philosophizing.
--Joe
> uerusuboyo@... wrote:
>
> <br/>Bill!, I'm interested in your point that there is no observer when
> sitting shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not
> experienced? If they are experienced, who or what is experiencing them? I'm
> also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they get passed
> the "He said - she said" current thread..
