i am butting in..
good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people and so it goes around in a circle there is very little justice in this world.. the chanting of mantras and believing in karma is just that.. the real world operates as it has always done.. as for folk practising religion ho hum to that... the world would not be the mess it is in now if we all toed the line: thou shalt not kill for starters.. as i always say..there is rule law for one and one for the other..most rules are broken... reality is such that folk do not practise any religions they just "pretend" and it's all just in case...so when they die they might have a reward... there might just be an almighty creator who'll give em the big stick.. as far as i see it the almighty creator is belly laughing at us all...he / she / it gave us the free will and what did we do with it?..KILL one another... he gave us a paradise and what did we do with it: destroyed it... we should ALL be ashamed of ourselves... and not one of US is any better or worse than each other... we are all in this to- gether as we are all one and the same creature: HUMAN ha ha ha ha and ho hum merle Mike, Thanks for your clarification below with which I agree. It does however bring up a good point about Buddhism or any other religion for that matter: just what is the religion? Is it what you or I interpret from 'Holy Scriptures' associated with the religion, or is it how the majority of the people who identify with the religion actually practice it? Of course everyone who identifies with a specific sect believes they have the 'correct' interpretation. It is my understanding (and I could be wrong on this) the vast majority of the people who call themselves Buddhists in the world practice Theravada Buddhism. Second in number is Mahayana and only a very small percentage of those who identify with Mahayana practice Chan or Zen. You are correct that the Thais I know who practice Theravada do think of karma as a tit-for-tat kind of law. In fact they have a saying in Thai that goes something like "if you do good you'll get good, and if you do bad you'll get bad". Kind of like the modern American folk adage "What goes around comes around". And you are correct that I do think the majority of Buddhists think of karma this way. Having said that I do appreciate your point that even your idea of karma is not that a bad action will result in a bad effect (like if you cheat someone at a store you might fall down and skin your knee on the way home), but that karma is the result of you doing something you believe to be 'bad' you will suffer. In the West and as I'm sure you know that is called 'guilt' and is associated with something called 'conscience'. And I do agree that if you do indeed BELIEVE you did something 'bad' you may indeed suffer pangs of guilt. So if that's what you mean by 'karma' then I'm certainly okay with that; BUT I still only associate that with your intellect (thoughts/illusions) and not with any natural or 'cosmic' law. For example two persons could to the same act (like killing a rabbit) and one would suffer and the other would not all depending on whether or not the individual thought what they did was 'bad' or not. I also want to think you for continuing to engage in this discussion in a respectuful, civil manner without resorting to insults or ad hominems as is unfortunately the style of some on this forum. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Bill!,<br/><br/>I'd love to leave it at that, but I have to correct you on > your mis-understanding of karma in case other readers think this is what > karma is. I think the problem lies in the many forms Buddhism is practiced. > As you know, there really isn't such a thing as a universal form of Buddhism > (Theravada, Mahayana, Zen, Vipassana, Shingon, Son, Chan, Nichiren etc.). In > many Buddhist countries Buddhism is practiced like the folk-religion that > preceded it (in the form of rituals, beliefs, divine being etc). I've seen > this in Thailand myself, yet the Buddhism as practiced in the forest > tradition there (vipassana) is nothing like the Buddhism as practiced by the > ordinary Thai household. I think the former is what has coloured your > perspective of Buddhism. For example you wrote:<br/><br/>"My opinion is > 'karma' is used in the Buddhist religion a carrot and stick to persuade you > to act 'good' and not 'bad'. It is described as something 'automatic' so that > if you do something 'bad' it will result in 'bad' things happening to you. > In that respect it is used in much the same way as is 'heaven' and 'hell' in > Christianity".<br/><br/>This is not the Buddha's view of karma as written in > the sutras. The sutras say nothing about good or bad things happening *to* > you, but more about your state of mind (suffering or peaceful) as created by > *your* thoughts/acts. There's a world of difference between that and what > your view of karma is. 'Karma' is just a description of what is plainly > observable if we investigate our own thoughts and actions and resulting state > of mind. Buddha also taught that you can't look at someone else's life to > determine their karma - it only applies to ourselves (a bit like the "Is that > so" story from Zen). It's much closer to a scientific analysis of 'what is' > than a spiritual or religious belief.<br/><br/>>..Karma, > > sharma<br/><br/>Dharma!<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/>Sent > from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >
