mike..the point here is the tiger does what it does and that is that..i'd rather be eaten by a tiger than murdered by a human...what would you prefer?...merle
Merle, The use of ">" indicates a cut and paste of *your* words. >you seem to have it in for animals and insects etc. This is what you wrote about me. As I have said over and over, this is simply not true. My point is that we have the ability to transcend instinctive behaviours - something unique in the animal kingdom. It's such an obvious point that I don't know why you'd need examples or further elaboration. A human can refuse to kill a tiger even to the point of dying for that belief. That same tiger would rip him apart given the chance. It's nothing to do with the tiger being "bad". The point is that a human can act on higher principles of compassion, mercy, altruism etc. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] rise above to where? Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 12:13:29 AM mike are you actually reading my posts...do i say i have it in for animals and insects? no..i say i have it in for humans!!!!!!!!!!!! what ever IN means in your books i see so we humans can transcend.... really..transcend to where??????..merle Merle, > you seem to have it in for animals, insects etc. Don't put words into my mouth that were never there! I was careful to point out in my earlier post that we are *not* superior to other animals, just unique in our ability to transcend base instincts. Constantly giving me examples of the terrible things humans do to each other, other animals and the environment does *not* constitute an argument against this premise. Human beings have the sense of sight. To keep bringing up examples of blind people you know doesn't negate the first point. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Subject: [Zen] rise above Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 10:43:59 PM mike...what do you wish me to elaborate?... i was in a situation back when i was 20...i hitch hiked...very silly... and the guy pulled car over in a bushland setting..well well well i thought best appeal to his better consciousness...and with a bit of fast talking on my part he said get out of car...i ran for my life... so i was succeeded in getting this animal to transcend his instinct..so to speak... however this not always the case is it...no amount of getting the "killer" "rapist" to see the light will ever happen..hell bent on their task at hand...they do what they "must do".... so now you tell me these folk can "rise above"..well maybe they cannot.... you seem to have it in for animals, insects etc... they don't need to "rise above"..because they do what they must do and do it well.... humans are the ones who are hell bent on destruction...fuelled by stupidity, ignorance, hormones, and "wrong thinking"..... you know that..witness the world as it is... merle Merle, My apologies! I thought you were referring to the killer not the victim. However, I don't see the relevancy between the victim and the ability to transcend animal instinct. Can you elaborate on that further in regard to what I've been arguing here? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad not all humans have a choice either.... this is simplistic thinking on your part mike..did the english man butchered by the crazy killer have a choice?..merle That's not the point I'm making though. We have a choice. Animals don't. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] how good is that? Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 4:37:33 AM mike..i see...however how many are willing?..merle Merle, That's the point. We have the potential to do so regardless of how many don't. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] how good is that? Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 4:29:57 AM mike ..we "might" have the potential to rise "above"...however how many of us do????????? merle Merle, >how many folk rise above their instincts and desires?... You keep missing my point. By being born human we have the _potential_ to transcend our instincts and desires - something no other organism consistently demonstrates. We are much more fortunate. In Buddhist/Hindu terms, being born human is akin to falling off a ship and rising to the surface to find a wooden yoke directly above us. >the other organisms that you say are trapped by instinct... Are you saying they are not? >how beautifully they live..as bill says free from attachments... they just >are.. "Beautiful"? I'd say that's a very anthropomorphic term. You're a gardener. Ever seen a vegetarian spider or a fox help a chicken cross the road? >we ..us humans strive to be...the other organisms just are.. They just "are" includes being driven by blind instinct. We can transcend that, even though many don't. >no wringing of hands and wrestling with philosophies, religions >psychology.... free to be........ how good is that?... It's not a question of being superior to other animals, but that we are unique - at this stage of evolution - as self-transcending beings. >let us take a leaf out of these organisms books so to speak,.... Everything is our teacher. > by the way we are those organisms.. have you not met in your travels the human reptile?.... Many times. How many times have you met a reptilian Jesus or Dalai Lama? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Subject: [Zen] how good is that? Sent: Fri, Jun 21, 2013 11:38:32 PM mike..ho ho ho.. how many folk rise above their instincts and desires?... just take a look at this crazy world... the other organisms that you say are trapped by instinct... how beautifully they live..as bill says free from attachments... they just are.. we ..us humans strive to be...the other organisms just are.. no wringing of hands and wrestling with philosophies, religions psychology.... free to be........ how good is that?... let us take a leaf out of these organisms books so to speak,.... by the way we are those organisms.. have you not met in your travels the human reptile?.... merle Bill!, I'd say the difference is a major one. Animals are driven by instinct and are largely prisoners to it. We are too, but we do have the potential to transcend them (instincts). Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Bill! <[email protected]>; To: <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] no sound is heard what so ever Sent: Fri, Jun 21, 2013 8:31:54 AM Mike, It's just possible that "no other organism' needs these gifts (the dharma). Since we humans make our own suffering through attachments it's possible that is not a problem, or at least as big a problem, in other organisms. Just a thought... ...Bill! --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Merle,<br/><br/>I sometimes wonder if your view of humans is influenced by > your personality or your exposure to Christian-Judaeo thinking. It certainly > seems in accord with ideas like Original Sin! I see things differently. Those > of us alive right now 'owe' it to the fact that every single one of our > ancestors survived to reproductive age and procreated. We also can see our > place in the universe and our origins. We have been born in a time where > there is a teaching (Dharma) that shows us how we can experience ultimate > reality and end our suffering. No other organism has these 'gifts'. How > extraordinary and lucky we are!<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! > Mail for iPad >
