Merle,

Yet again Edgar misinterprets and misrepresents what I have consistently said.  
His count is only 1 off this time, but it's an important 1...

I do NOT believe only I exist, and you and Edgar and everyone else are 
delusions.

I believe I and you and Edgar and everyone else are delusions.

I hope you appreciate the difference...

...Bill!


--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>
> Merle,
> 
> You don't get the depths of Bill's delusions.
> 
> Bill truly believes only HE exists and you and I are delusions, figments of 
> HIS imagination. This solipsistic delusion is the height of arrogance and 
> megalomania..
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 14, 2013, at 10:58 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> >  i must agree with edgar here..
> > i was only thinking this ...this very morning... 
> > we all  perceive things differently...
> > the reality is out there as reality surely bill... 
> >  we need a consensus so we can function as a society ... 
> > merle
> > 
> >  
> > Bill,
> > 
> > Yes, you experience what you experience whatever. But it isn't reality 
> > because it's different between observers...
> > 
> > There is an actual external reality that each observer experiences it 
> > differently...
> > 
> > But why O why am I wasting my time trying to teach you the obvious, a 
> > teaching that every Zen master from Buddha onward agrees with me on?
> > 
> > Edgar
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Jul 14, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Bill! wrote:
> > 
> >>  
> >> Merle,
> >> 
> >> If you are color-blind or totally blind it makes no difference. You 
> >> experience what you experience. That which you experience is real. That 
> >> which you perceive (think about, intellectualize) is not.
> >> 
> >> We do interpret our experiences with our mind. That's called perceiving. 
> >> And just as you say we interpret them to make sense out of them, but it's 
> >> WE, our human intellect, that 'makes the sense'. It's not as many believe 
> >> that our intellect 'discovers' the sense which is inherent in experience. 
> >> We create it and we superimpose it, force-fit it, onto our experience.
> >> 
> >> And yes, you're correct again that we perceive (apply our intellect)in 
> >> order to survive. That doesn't make our perceptions real, it only makes 
> >> them useful.
> >> 
> >> Our intellect does not make things real. Our intellect takes our 
> >> experience of reality and forces it into a little logical box so we can 
> >> understand it. Our intellect distorts reality. That's called perception 
> >> and is a delusion (or illusion).
> >> 
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by 'and then there is a consensus' so I cannot 
> >> comment on that.
> >> 
> >> ...Bill!
> >> 
> >> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Â so if one was colour blind...how would that fit into the scheme of 
> >> > things?
> >> > ..it would not be the correct interpretation of the world..for instance 
> >> > traffic lights.. 
> >> > 
> >> > i do not believe one can totally trust our senses as being the only real 
> >> > experience...what ever you mean by real...we see  we hear we touch we 
> >> > smell we taste... 
> >> > Â one interpret this with our mind...
> >> > otherwise this world would make no sense what so ever... 
> >> > Â one must in order to survive make meaning out of what we see, hear, 
> >> > touch, smell and taste...
> >> > what other experiences are there apart from the sensory?... 
> >> > i'd say they are the starting point not the all end to understanding the 
> >> > world...
> >> > we need our minds to make sense of the world surely?...and hence an 
> >> > intellect...
> >> > Â then it becomes real real real... and one is able to communicate that 
> >> > reality to others
> >> > Â and then there is a consensus
> >> > 
> >> > merle
> >> > 
> >> > Â  
> >> > Merle,
> >> > 
> >> > IMO only experience is real, and by that 'experience' I mean sensory 
> >> > experience (sight, sound, touch, smell, taste).
> >> > 
> >> > That's it. That's all.
> >> > 
> >> > ...Bill!
> >> > 
> >> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > 
> >> > > 
> >> > >  bill..thank you for your clarification...so what is NOT an 
> >> > > illusion bill?...and what is real in your world?...merle
> >> > > 
> >> > > 
> >> > >   
> >> > > Merle,
> >> > > 
> >> > > Sure...as long as you tie it back to zen it's fair game as far as I'm 
> >> > > concerned. What this article is talking about is what Buddhism calls 
> >> > > 'suffering'.
> >> > > 
> >> > > Western medicine tries to alleviate it by prescribing medications.
> >> > > 
> >> > > Most religions try to alleviate it by prescribing faith in God.
> >> > > 
> >> > > Art, music, work, activities of all sorts, etc.. help alleviate it by 
> >> > > having you concentrate on something else. 
> >> > > 
> >> > > Zen IMO tries to alleviate it by helping you experience these are 
> >> > > delusive.
> >> > > 
> >> > > ...Bill! 
> >> > > 
> >> > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > 
> >> > > > 
> >> > > >  i thought this was a good article as to what bill talks 
> >> > > > about..illusions... hence zen appropriate..correct me if i am 
> >> > > > incorrect...bill...
> >> > > > merle
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >Worried Sick
> >> > > > >Expectations can make you ill. Fear can make you fragile. 
> >> > > > >Understanding the nocebo effect may help prevent this painful 
> >> > > > >phenomenon.
> >> > > > >By Megan Scudellari | July 1, 2013
> >> > > > >© BRYAN SATALINO
> >> > > > >Something strange was happening in New Zealand. In the fall of 
> >> > > > >2007, pharmacies across the country had begun dispensing a new 
> >> > > > >formulation of Eltroxinâ€"the only thyroid hormone 
> >> > > > >replacement drug approved and paid for by the government and used 
> >> > > > >by tens of thousands of New Zealanders since 1973. Within months, 
> >> > > > >reports of side effects began trickling in to the 
> >> > > > >government’s health-care monitoring agency. These 
> >> > > > >included known side effects of the drug, such as lethargy, joint 
> >> > > > >pain, and depression, as well as symptoms not normally associated 
> >> > > > >with the drug or disease, including eye pain, itching, and nausea. 
> >> > > > >Then, the following summer, the floodgates opened: in the 18 months 
> >> > > > >following the release of the new tablets, the rate of Eltroxin 
> >> > > > >adverse event reporting rose nearly 2,000-fold.1
> >> > > > >The strange thing was, the active ingredient in the drug, 
> >> > > > >thyroxine, was exactly the same. Laboratory testing proved that the 
> >> > > > >new formulation was bioequivalent to the old one. The only change 
> >> > > > >was that the drugmaker, GlaxoSmithKline, had moved its 
> >> > > > >manufacturing process from Canada to Germany, and in the process 
> >> > > > >altered the drug’s inert qualities, including the 
> >> > > > >tablets’ size, color, and markings.
> >> > > > >So why were people getting sick? In June, it turned out, newspapers 
> >> > > > >and TV stations around the country had begun to directly attribute 
> >> > > > >the reported adverse effects to the changes in the drug. Following 
> >> > > > >widespread coverage of the issue, more and more patients reported 
> >> > > > >adverse events to the government. And the areas of the country with 
> >> > > > >the most intense media coverage had the highest rates of reported 
> >> > > > >ill effects, suggesting that perhaps a little social persuasion was 
> >> > > > >at play.
> >> > > > >â€Å"Nocebo†(meaning â€Å"I shall 
> >> > > > >harmâ€) is the dastardly sibling of placebo (â€Å
> >> > > > >"I shall pleaseâ€).
> >> > > > >But Eltroxin takers were not making up their symptoms. The feelings 
> >> > > > >were real, but in the vast majority of cases they could not be 
> >> > > > >attributed to the drug’s pharmacological 
> >> > > > >properties. The patients were victims of the nocebo effect.
> >> > > > >â€Å"Nocebo†(meaning â€Å"I shall 
> >> > > > >harmâ€) is the dastardly sibling of placebo (â€Å
> >> > > > >"I shall pleaseâ€). In a placebo response, a sham 
> >> > > > >medication or procedure has a beneficial health effect as a result 
> >> > > > >of a patient’s expectation. Sugar pills, for 
> >> > > > >example, can powerfully improve depression when the patient 
> >> > > > >believes them to be antidepressants. But, researchers are learning, 
> >> > > > >the reverse phenomenon is also common: negative expectations can 
> >> > > > >actually cause harm.
> >> > > > >When Parkinson’s patients undergoing deep brain 
> >> > > > >stimulation were told that their brain pacemaker was going to be 
> >> > > > >turned off, symptoms of their illness became more pronounced, even 
> >> > > > >when the pacemaker was left on.2 When people with and 
> >> > > > >without lactose intolerance were asked to ingest lactose, but were 
> >> > > > >actually given glucose, 44 percent of those with lactose 
> >> > > > >intolerance and 26 percent of those without it still complained of 
> >> > > > >stomach pain.3 And men treated for an enlarged prostate 
> >> > > > >with a commonly prescribed drug and told that the drug â€Å
> >> > > > >"may cause erectile dysfunction, decreased libido, [and] problems 
> >> > > > >of ejaculation,†but that these effects were â€Å
> >> > > > >"uncommon,†were more than twice as likely to experience 
> >> > > > >impotence as those who were not so informed.4
> >> > > > >On paper, it sounds like psychobabbleâ€"a negative effect 
> >> > > > >caused by a sham treatment based on a patient’s 
> >> > > > >expectationsâ€"but it is a real biochemical and 
> >> > > > >physiological process, involving pain and stress pathways in the 
> >> > > > >brain. And mounting evidence suggests that the nocebo effect is 
> >> > > > >having a substantial negative impact on clinical research, 
> >> > > > >medicine, and health.
> >> > > > >â€Å"Nocebo is at least as important as the placebo effect 
> >> > > > >and may be more widespread,†says Ted Kaptchuk, director 
> >> > > > >of Harvard’s Program in Placebo Studies at Beth 
> >> > > > >Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, Massachusetts.
> >> > > > >Now that this pernicious phenomenon is starting to receive the 
> >> > > > >recognition it deserves, the question is: What exactly can be done 
> >> > > > >about it?
> >> > > > >Evil effects
> >> > > > >ALLERGIC TO NOCEBO
> >> > > > >© BRYAN SATALINO
> >> > > > >According to several recent studies, pain and itch appear to be 
> >> > > > >especially susceptible to verbal suggestion. Recently, researchers 
> >> > > > >in the Netherlands demonstrated that people who are told that a 
> >> > > > >stimulus will cause itch feel the itch more intensely than those 
> >> > > > >told that the stimulus is unlikely to cause itch. The finding could 
> >> > > > >have implications for chronic itch conditions, says first author 
> >> > > > >Antoinette van Laarhoven of Radboud University Nijmegen Medical 
> >> > > > >Center. â€Å"More knowledge about nocebo effects on itch 
> >> > > > >can give us some targets to reduce [those effects].â€
> >> > > > >Also last year, in a curious study of nocebo and rectal pain, a 
> >> > > > >team at University Hospital Essen in Germany managed to recruit 
> >> > > > >healthy volunteers to undergo multiple rectal balloon distensions, 
> >> > > > >a procedure in which a balloon is inserted into the rectum and 
> >> > > > >slowly inflatedâ€"in this case, until the moment it 
> >> > > > >becomes painful. The procedures were exactly the same in control 
> >> > > > >and nocebo groups, but there was a 20 percent increase in pain 
> >> > > > >ratings among patients who had been told that doctors had observed 
> >> > > > >an increase in pain sensitivity in response to repeated 
> >> > > > >distensions. Those individuals who experienced more pain also had 
> >> > > > >elevated levels of cortisol, again linking nocebo to anxiety. 
> >> > > > >â€Å"We could show that a nocebo effect may be induced 
> >> > > > >even by mere information,†says Sven Benson, an author on 
> >> > > > >the paper.
> >> > > > >Another area of health that researchers suspect may be affected by 
> >> > > > >nocebo is the increased incidence of asthma and allergies. 
> >> > > > >â€Å"It’s certainly possible,†
> >> > > > >says Manfred Schedlowski, who studies placebo and the immune system 
> >> > > > >at University Hospital Essen. â€Å"From experimental data, 
> >> > > > >we know an allergic reaction can be conditioned.â€
> >> > > > >In an oft-cited case from 1886, John Mackenzie, a surgeon in 
> >> > > > >Baltimore, described how he’d â€Å
> >> > > > >"obtained an artificial rose of such exquisite workmanship that it 
> >> > > > >presented a perfect counterfeit of the original,†then 
> >> > > > >exposed a woman with severe rose allergy to the fake flower. The 
> >> > > > >woman, not knowing it was fake, had a full-blown allergic reaction, 
> >> > > > >including a running nose, swollen nostrils, and a tight chest.12 
> >> > > > >Similarly, people allergic to dogs may begin sneezing when they 
> >> > > > >simply see a dog across the way. Researchers have even shown that 
> >> > > > >guinea pigs can be conditioned to release histamine, causing a 
> >> > > > >local immune response, when presented with just an odor stimulus.
> >> > > > >But the link between nocebo and allergy is far from concrete. 
> >> > > > >â€Å"We’re in such a primitive state of 
> >> > > > >understanding this phenomenon, particularly in a clinically 
> >> > > > >oriented way, that we just need to do more research,†
> >> > > > >says bioethicist Frank Miller of the National Institutes of Health. 
> >> > > > >In 1997, Fabrizio Benedetti, a neurophysiologist at the University 
> >> > > > >of Turin Medical School in Italy, was busy mapping the biochemical 
> >> > > > >pathways involved in placebo responses when he performed a simple 
> >> > > > >study that revealed a distinct neural mechanism driving the 
> >> > > > >body’s nocebo response. He gave consenting 
> >> > > > >postoperative patients reporting mild pain an injection that they 
> >> > > > >were told would increase their pain within 30 minutes. The 
> >> > > > >injection was either saline solution or proglumide, which blocks a 
> >> > > > >hormone implicated in pain hypersensitivity and associated with 
> >> > > > >anxiety. Neither substance actually causes any discomfort.
> >> > > > >When saline was injected, patients experienced increased pain. When 
> >> > > > >proglumide was injected, they had no pain increaseâ€"the 
> >> > > > >nocebo effect was absent.5 In one fell swoop, Benedetti 
> >> > > > >identified a biochemical reaction responsible for the nocebo 
> >> > > > >response, and he showed that it could be blocked.
> >> > > > >It was Benedetti’s work that finally convinced 
> >> > > > >physician-bioethicist Howard Brody that the nocebo 
> >> > > > >effectâ€"allegedly first mentioned in the scientific 
> >> > > > >literature in 1961 by physician Walter Kennedy, who called the 
> >> > > > >phenomenon a â€Å"quality inherent in the patient rather 
> >> > > > >than in the remedyâ€â€"was real.
> >> > > > >â€Å"For many years, I dismissed the value of the term 
> >> > > > >â€ËÅ"nocebo,’ â€
> >> > > > > says Brody, chair of family medicine and director of the Institute 
> >> > > > >for the Medical Humanities at the University of Texas Medical 
> >> > > > >Branch in Galveston, who first began studying the placebo effect in 
> >> > > > >the 1970s. He and others had long assumed that nocebo and placebo 
> >> > > > >were two sides of one coin, that the same process in the brain 
> >> > > > >supported both illusory effectsâ€"one was just manifested 
> >> > > > >as a positive outcome, while the other caused harm. But after 
> >> > > > >reading Benedetti’s work, Brody changed his tune: 
> >> > > > >â€Å"I received my comeuppance,†he laughs.
> >> > > > >With that first biochemical evidence, others also began recognizing 
> >> > > > >the importance of nocebo, and a few inquiring minds began to study 
> >> > > > >it. Nevertheless, compared to placebo, the nocebo effect remains 
> >> > > > >vastly understudied: a PubMed database search will turn up more 
> >> > > > >than 163,000 publications on â€Å"placebo†and 
> >> > > > >fewer than 200 on â€Å"nocebo.†Of those, only a 
> >> > > > >few dozen are empirical studies; most are reviews. â€Å
> >> > > > >"The placebo phenomenon has a tremendous fascination for the 
> >> > > > >publicâ€"a gee-whiz thing with a positive spin, a way to 
> >> > > > >be healthy without taking drugs,†says Frank Miller, a 
> >> > > > >bioethicist at the National Institutes of Health. â€Å"But 
> >> > > > >nobody is very enthusiastic about the nocebo phenomenon.â€
> >> > > > >In addition, the nocebo effect has become notoriously difficult to 
> >> > > > >study. Few institutional review boards will allow scientists to 
> >> > > > >induce pain in their subjects, and some even refuse to let 
> >> > > > >researchers mislead their volunteers. â€Å"My ethics 
> >> > > > >committee will not allow me to do it,†says Paul Enck, a 
> >> > > > >psychologist at the University of TÃÆ'¼bingen in Germany, 
> >> > > > >â€Å"unless I tell the subjects that I am deceiving 
> >> > > > >themâ€â€"a requirement that obviously defeats the 
> >> > > > >purpose of the deception. â€Å"It makes life really 
> >> > > > >miserable as a [nocebo] researcher,†says Enck.
> >> > > > >The tragedy of this lack of investigation, researchers assert, is 
> >> > > > >that controlled trials about the nocebo effect are needed to 
> >> > > > >further understand and prevent nocebo’s insidious 
> >> > > > >effects on medicine and research. â€Å"In clinical drug 
> >> > > > >trials, the placebo effectâ€"and now we know the nocebo 
> >> > > > >effectâ€"can be really, really large,†says 
> >> > > > >Manfred Schedlowski, a clinical researcher at the University 
> >> > > > >Hospital Essen in Germany. â€Å"This hinders the 
> >> > > > >development of new drugs.â€
> >> > > > >In December 2012, for example, a meta-analysis revealed the 
> >> > > > >shockingly large impact of the nocebo effect in clinical trials: in 
> >> > > > >18 fibromyalgia drug studies, 11 percent of 3,546 patients in the 
> >> > > > >placebo armâ€"meaning they were receiving a completely 
> >> > > > >inert substanceâ€"dropped out of the study because of side 
> >> > > > >effects including dizziness and nausea.6 Other studies have 
> >> > > > >calculated that nocebo effects cause between 4 and 26 percent of 
> >> > > > >patients taking placebo to leave a clinical trial because of side 
> >> > > > >effects from an inert treatment.
> >> > > > >The nocebo effect may also have a worrisome effect on vaccine use. 
> >> > > > >In 2011, researchers at the French vaccine manufacturer Sanofi 
> >> > > > >Pasteur analyzed 33,275 vaccine side-effect reports and found that 
> >> > > > >doctors and patients preferentially report disease-specific side 
> >> > > > >effects, such as measles-like rash following measles immunization, 
> >> > > > >even when the vaccine contains only proteins, sugars, or killed 
> >> > > > >organisms that won’t cause symptoms of the 
> >> > > > >disease. The nocebo effect has â€Å"great 
> >> > > > >potential†to exacerbate rumors and fears, and to cause a 
> >> > > > >vaccine crisis similar to the Eltroxin events in New Zealand, the 
> >> > > > >authors write.7
> >> > > > >But the most common place where the nocebo effect makes an 
> >> > > > >appearance is in everyday visits to clinics and hospitals. 
> >> > > > >â€Å"In places like primary care, people are swimming in 
> >> > > > >placebo and nocebo effects,†says Kaptchuk.
> >> > > > >Thomas D’Amico, chief of thoracic surgery at Duke 
> >> > > > >University Medical Center in Durham, North Carolina, says that even 
> >> > > > >before he heard the term nocebo effect, he was aware of it in the 
> >> > > > >clinic. â€Å"I’ve listened to some 
> >> > > > >well-respected colleagues give information [to a patient], and I 
> >> > > > >thought, â€ËÅ"Gosh, I know the operation and even I 
> >> > > > >wouldn’t want it,’†he 
> >> > > > >says. â€Å"There’s too much detail and 
> >> > > > >too much emphasis about things that could go wrong.†
> >> > > > >Measuring the effect of such detail on an individual patient is 
> >> > > > >hard to quantify, he says, but fear and distress before an 
> >> > > > >operation has been associated with slow postoperative recovery and 
> >> > > > >delayed wound healing.
> >> > > > >Nuts and bolts
> >> > > > >© BRYAN SATALINODespite the disproportionate amount of 
> >> > > > >effort put into placebo research, since 
> >> > > > >Benedetti’s 1997 discovery 
> >> > > > >there’s been an uptick in the funding and time 
> >> > > > >devoted to investigating the mechanisms behind nocebo, with 
> >> > > > >impressive results. â€Å"Without a doubt, 
> >> > > > >there’s been a level of research and a 
> >> > > > >sophistication of research that has made a quantum jump in the last 
> >> > > > >decade or so,†says Brody.
> >> > > > >In 2007, for example, Benedetti discovered that the 
> >> > > > >hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis in the brain, an important part 
> >> > > > >of the body’s â€Å"stress 
> >> > > > >system,†is activated during a nocebo response, as 
> >> > > > >detected by an increase in the secretion of the hormones ACTH, from 
> >> > > > >the pituitary gland, and cortisol, from the adrenal gland, both 
> >> > > > >markers of anxiety.8
> >> > > > >Then, in 2008, Kaptchuk and colleagues at Harvard performed the 
> >> > > > >first brain-imaging study of the nocebo effect. After conditioning 
> >> > > > >healthy volunteers to expect pain on their right forearm, they 
> >> > > > >watched as the hippocampus lit up when people experienced pain from 
> >> > > > >a sham acupuncture device.
> >> > > > >Through Benedetti’s and 
> >> > > > >Kaptchuk’s work, it is now clear that a 
> >> > > > >person’s expectation of pain can induce 
> >> > > > >anticipatory anxiety, triggering the activation of cholecystokinin, 
> >> > > > >the hormone that Benedetti blocked with proglumide. 
> >> > > > >Cholecystokinin-mediated pathways in turn facilitate pain 
> >> > > > >transmission, which occurs in specific areas of the brain. The 
> >> > > > >finding does not coincide with what is know about the biochemistry 
> >> > > > >of the placebo effectâ€"which seems to be at least partly 
> >> > > > >regulated by opioid releaseâ€"suggesting the two phenomena 
> >> > > > >have distinct mechanisms.
> >> > > > >â€Å"Even if placebo and nocebo are on a continuum of 
> >> > > > >expectation, different mechanisms kick in at different points along 
> >> > > > >that continuum,†says Tor Wager, director of the 
> >> > > > >Cognitive and Affective Control Laboratory at the University of 
> >> > > > >Colorado, Boulder, who studies the brain pathways underlying pain.
> >> > > > >Last year, Kaptchuk and colleagues added a surprising twist when 
> >> > > > >they discovered nocebo can occur without conscious awareness. His 
> >> > > > >team applied either high or low heat pain to the arms of 20 
> >> > > > >volunteers while showing them an image of one of two faces. The 
> >> > > > >researchers then showed the volunteers the faces again, but with 
> >> > > > >identical, moderate heat applied to their arms each time and the 
> >> > > > >faces displayed at a much faster pace, preventing conscious 
> >> > > > >recognition. When exposed to the faces associated with high pain 
> >> > > > >levels, even without conscious awareness, the volunteers felt more 
> >> > > > >pain.9ʉہ"It was a really risky 
> >> > > > >experiment,†says Kaptchuk. â€Å"We were really 
> >> > > > >surprised. We couldn’t believe it, 
> >> > > > >actually.â€
> >> > > > >The biochemical and physiological discoveries about nocebo have 
> >> > > > >made the phenomenon more credible in the medical community. 
> >> > > > >â€Å"These brain measures provide objective evidence on 
> >> > > > >the physical system implementing these squishy, fuzzy changes in 
> >> > > > >emotion and expectation,†says Wager.
> >> > > > >Most nocebo research to date, however, focuses on basic mechanisms, 
> >> > > > >not on how to deal with the phenomenon in the clinic. â€Å
> >> > > > >"Translational research has been a stepchild in scientific 
> >> > > > >investigations of this phenomenon,†says Miller. 
> >> > > > >Understanding the mechanism is important, but at the end of the 
> >> > > > >day, he says, the medical community needs a solution to the problem.
> >> > > > >Controlling for nocebo
> >> > > > >In 1987, a team of doctors in Ontario, Canada, suspected that 
> >> > > > >medical consent forms might actually cause harm. Using the chance 
> >> > > > >occurrence of two different consent forms being used for the same 
> >> > > > >drug trial, they compared patient reactions to the wording of the 
> >> > > > >forms. The trial pitted aspirin against sulfinpyrazone, a medicine 
> >> > > > >already approved to treat gout, as a treatment for chest pain. 
> >> > > > >Patients at two of the three centers hosting the trial were 
> >> > > > >informed that â€Å"side effects are not anticipated beyond 
> >> > > > >occasional gastrointestinal irritation and, rarely, skin 
> >> > > > >rash.†At the third center, patients’ 
> >> > > > >consent forms did not mention gastrointestinal effects. Seventy-six 
> >> > > > >patients out of 399 (19 percent) given the first consent form that 
> >> > > > >mentioned GI irritation withdrew from the study, citing GI issues, 
> >> > > > >compared to just 5 out of 156 (3 percent) who received the second 
> >> > > > >form.10
> >> > > > >With the nocebo effect, doctors are caught between a rock and a 
> >> > > > >hard place: their medical duty to primum non nocere, â€Å
> >> > > > >"First, do no harm,†and the ethical and regulatory 
> >> > > > >obligation of informed consent. What do you do when informed 
> >> > > > >consent leads to harm?
> >> > > > >Last year, Kaptchuk and colleague Rebecca Wells, also at Harvard 
> >> > > > >Medical School, sparked a debate on this topic in the pages of 
> >> > > > >the American Journal of Bioethics. They proposed a middle 
> >> > > > >ground called contextualized informed consent. Doctors, they 
> >> > > > >suggested, might choose not to tell patients every last side effect 
> >> > > > >of a treatment in great detail, but instead provide information to 
> >> > > > >a patient tailored to his or her level of anxiety, such as leaving 
> >> > > > >out nonspecific side effectsâ€"those that are not a direct 
> >> > > > >result of the pharmacological action of the 
> >> > > > >drugâ€"including headache, nausea, and fatigue.
> >> > > > >Nocebo is at least as important as the placebo effect and may be 
> >> > > > >more widespread.â€"­ Ted Kaptchuk, Program in 
> >> > > > >Placebo Studies,
> >> > > > >>Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard University
> >> > > > >But the idea of not informing patients of all possible side effects 
> >> > > > >is anathema to some ethicists. â€Å"I certainly 
> >> > > > >don’t think that we should be rethinking whether 
> >> > > > >informed consent should be a basic norm in clinical 
> >> > > > >practice,†says Miller. Such a practice could promote 
> >> > > > >mistrust in the health-care system and defeat recent efforts 
> >> > > > >towards increased transparency. It may not be possible to have 
> >> > > > >valid informed consent with no chance of the nocebo phenomenon, 
> >> > > > >Miller admits, but he proposes two alterative techniques.
> >> > > > >One is to frame information about treatments positively rather than 
> >> > > > >negatively. A 1996 study from the University of Ottawa in Canada, 
> >> > > > >for example, described the benefits and risks of a vaccine to 292 
> >> > > > >people, who had never been previously immunized, using tw
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>




------------------------------------

Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    [email protected] 
    [email protected]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [email protected]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Reply via email to