Hal, The technique of counting breathes as you've described below is how I was first taught to meditate (zazen) over 40 years ago and I use that technique to begin my meditation sessions to this day.
Along the way I was also introduced to other techniques which can accomplish the same thing such as bowing, chanting, walking meditation, work detail and of course koan study. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Eccentrics.R.US" <HALatMOTHERSHIP@...> wrote: > > When i first started mindfulness meditation, which was quite a few years > ago, i was advised to count > my breaths, 1......2......3 ...and if a thought arose i was to start > over.....1......2......3....thought....1.....2....3.... > and over and over. i learned that i was never more then a few breaths away > from my thoughts and > they would arise if i was counting or not. i quickly became frustrated > with my practice and gave up > on that form of meditation. > > Today i smile at myself. i wanted to be so perfect and successful that i > was willing to forego a meditation > lesson that does work for many practitioners. No matter if the success or > perfection was fast and without > lasting lessons, i wanted what i wanted and wanted it right now. > > Today brings me forward to different meditations that have been a slow go > and yet are quite helpful and > healthy for me. But my first try at meditation still brings a smile to my > face and even a chuckle now and then... > > M > > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 2:08 PM, larry maher <lcmaher22@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, the ten thousand things. I did and do the same as you. > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Eccentrics.R.US < > > HALatMOTHERSHIP@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> yes, that is true that most opinions, theories and books are written on > >> yesterdays thoughts, yesterdays views and yesterdays news. > >> But as I age my interests change and that which is old becomes new to me > >> because then I am interested in it.... > >> I was reading that people have about 70,000 thoughts a day go through > >> their minds, and before I read that I was hard > >> on myself during meditation as a few of mine would stick around and > >> nearly drive me crazy with their insistence. And then when I read the > >> theory of 70 thousand, I didn't feel bad about a few of my intrusive, stuck > >> in the groove thoughts. > >> > >> > >> M > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:50 AM, larry maher <lcmaher22@...>wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> He might be right? But it's just one opinion based on another guy's > >>> (Freud) opinion who based his opinion on another's opinion. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Eccentrics.R.US < > >>> HALatMOTHERSHIP@...> wrote: > >>> > >>>> ** > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I am brand new, but did read a rule that says to keep it Zen and that > >>>> is good enuf for me. > >>>> > >>>> I have only seen 2 posts since I joined up, so have not been lucky > >>>> enough to see other > >>>> letters on any subjects. I have been researching Pain and then saw > >>>> this book of Fabers where he > >>>> says separation from the mother, generates a "life-long mourning > >>>> process," triggering an endless > >>>> "search for replacement, for someone or something to fill the gap." and > >>>> is what I started my research > >>>> with a few years ago. This is the first time I have heard of Faber or > >>>> his book, so my interest > >>>> is high as there is almost a sort of Synchronicity between his > >>>> thoughts and mine. > >>>> > >>>> I can contact you off list if you like, I have copied and saved your > >>>> address for later > >>>> reference. > >>>> > >>>> Thank you > >>>> > >>>> M > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:32 PM, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> thank you M.... > >>>>> > >>>>> i always feel nervous now since the new rules were enforced by the > >>>>> moderators as to what was appropriate and what what was not for zen > >>>>> forum... > >>>>> > >>>>> i nearly thought maybe not to post... feeling the "nervous nellie" > >>>>> > >>>>> i have had private responses as well in support.. > >>>>> > >>>>> so thank you for your support M. > >>>>> > >>>>> i would be interested in your feedback... > >>>>> > >>>>> merle > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The Book, The Withdrawal of Human Projection looks like one I would > >>>>> love to read and add to my library. > >>>>> Amazon has 7 copies left, just wanted to stop by and tell you that > >>>>> this was one excellent Posting to the group. > >>>>> > >>>>> M > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 2:12 AM, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> for suresh...merle > >>>>> > >>>>> Having trouble viewing this email? click > >>>>> here<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/v?e=31CA55&c=4BF35&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE&relid=2E04A96C> > >>>>> *Return to Emptiness: free copy of The Withdrawal of Human > >>>>> Projection* > >>>>> *COLLEGE INSTRUCTORS may receive a free copy for use in teaching and > >>>>> research.** Simply respond to this email indicating you will request > >>>>> that your library order a copy.* > >>>>> *[image: Developmental Time, Cultural Space]* > >>>>> *Pages: *118 pages* > >>>>> Publisher: > >>>>> *Library of Social > >>>>> Science<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/l?u=289245A&e=31CA55&c=4BF35&t=0&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE> > >>>>> * > >>>>> Author: > >>>>> *M. D. Faber* > >>>>> Date of Publication: > >>>>> *June 1, 2013* > >>>>> Paperback: > >>>>> * List Price $34.95 > >>>>> ISBN: 091504207X > >>>>> *Hardcover: > >>>>> * List Price $39.95 > >>>>> ISBN: 0915042088* > >>>>> * > >>>>> *For information on ordering this book through Amazon, click > >>>>> here.*<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/l?u=289245B&e=31CA55&c=4BF35&t=0&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE> > >>>>> *Because we believe The Withdrawal of Human Projection is an > >>>>> important bookand wish to assure that it achieves the widest possible > >>>>> circulationwe are offering a free copy to college instructors if you > >>>>> will > >>>>> simply ask your library to order a copy. Please respond to this > >>>>> emailwrite to oanderson@...providing your > >>>>> name and the name of your college or university. We will send you a free > >>>>> electronic copy of the entire book (identical to the physical copy, > >>>>> including the front & back cover).* > >>>>> *Professor emeritus of English at the University of Victoria, M. D. > >>>>> Faber is a renowned authority on the psychology of religion and author > >>>>> of > >>>>> nine books, including Culture and Consciousness, The Psychological > >>>>> Roots of Religious Belief, and The Magic of Prayer: An Introduction > >>>>> to the Psychology of Faith.** > >>>>> * > >>>>> *We are immersed within culture > >>>>> like fish in the sea* > >>>>> We experience culture as if air that we breathe. Or one may say that > >>>>> human beings are like fish within waterembraced, encompassed and > >>>>> incorporated by "society." In many post-modern theories, there is > >>>>> barely a > >>>>> concept of a self prior to or separate from the symbolic order. Some > >>>>> theorists contend that our psyche is constituted by nothing more or less > >>>>> than the "discourses that push and pull us." > >>>>> Scholars focus on the inescapable power of discourse, yet rail against > >>>>> the dominating, oppressive dimensions of society. The term "hegemony" > >>>>> conveys the idea of culture and its ideologies as an omnipresentand > >>>>> potentially destructiveforce. > >>>>> But what is "culture?" Why is there such an intimate connection > >>>>> between our minds and society? In *The Withdrawal of Human > >>>>> Projection, *M. D. Faber departs from conventional > >>>>> approachesproviding a psychological analysis of our *need or desire > >>>>> for culture. *What motivates us to bind ourselves to the symbolic > >>>>> order? > >>>>> *How is it possible to separate > >>>>> from beloved objects?* > >>>>> Faber begins with the child's attachment to mother and family. We > >>>>> experience a deep, profound tie to early love objects. Simultaneously, > >>>>> we > >>>>> are compelled to separate from these objects and move into realitya > >>>>> place > >>>>> that does not contain the mother. *How is it possible to achieve > >>>>> separation from that to which we are so deeply attached? *This is the > >>>>> subject of Faber's book. > >>>>> Separation from our mother and families, Faber says, generates a > >>>>> "life-long mourning process," triggering an endless "search for > >>>>> replacement, for someone or something to fill the gap." The child deals > >>>>> with separation by choosing "transitional objects"blankets, teddy > >>>>> bears, > >>>>> story booksthat afford the magical or illusory belief that one is > >>>>> "staying > >>>>> with the caretaker at the same time he or she is moving away from her or > >>>>> giving her up." We bind to objects that "symbolize and evoke the > >>>>> comforting > >>>>> presence of the mother." > >>>>> Our relationship to culture, according to Faber, derives from our > >>>>> relationship to transitional objects. Cultural objects are glorified, > >>>>> puffed-up transitional objects. We bind ourselves tightly to the > >>>>> cultural > >>>>> domain as part of a ceaseless struggle to come to terms with separation > >>>>> and > >>>>> loss; to solidify and stabilize the self. > >>>>> *Ambivalence* > >>>>> Faber hypothesizes that we are tied to the institutions of society out > >>>>> of the tie that binds us to parental figures within. Our struggle to > >>>>> establish "dual unity" binds us to the objects of our inner world, and > >>>>> hence to an overestimation or attachment to cultural objects that become > >>>>> "projective exemplifications of either acceptance or rejection; in other > >>>>> words, psychological symbols." > >>>>> At the same time that we seek to maintain the tie to mother, we > >>>>> struggle to separate. Insofar as cultural objects symbolize mother, our > >>>>> relationship to these objects is inherently ambivalent. We > >>>>> simultaneously > >>>>> seek to fuse with these objects and to differentiateseparateourselves > >>>>> from them. We come feel dominated and oppressedtormented by the very > >>>>> ideologies, ideals and cultural objects to which we have become deeply > >>>>> attached. > >>>>> *Because we believe The Withdrawal of Human Projection is an > >>>>> important bookand wish to assure that it achieves the widest possible > >>>>> circulationwe are offering a free copy to college instructors if you > >>>>> will > >>>>> simply ask your library to order a copy. Please respond to this > >>>>> emailwrite to oanderson@...providing your > >>>>> name and the name of your college or university. We will send you a free > >>>>> electronic copy of the entire book (identical to the physical copy, > >>>>> including the front & back cover).* > >>>>> Contemporary scholarship views the power of culture to shape the self > >>>>> as inevitable and nearly inescapable. Lacanians state that "is no other > >>>>> but > >>>>> the other." Submitting to culture, we become "subjects of the symbolic > >>>>> order." > >>>>> However, there are other perspectives. Books like Freud's *Civilization > >>>>> and Its > >>>>> Discontents*<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/l?u=289245C&e=31CA55&c=4BF35&t=0&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE>suggest > >>>>> a clear distinction between society, on the one hand, and the > >>>>> individual, on the other. The fact that human beings suffer fromand can > >>>>> perform a critique ofcivilization implies that there is a part of the > >>>>> self > >>>>> that is *not* bound to civilization. Many social movements subsequent > >>>>> to Freud's book built on the assumption that liberation entails > >>>>> "throwing > >>>>> off" the yoke of society. > >>>>> *Return to emptiness* > >>>>> Faber turns to Buddhism as a method for achieving a "break" from the > >>>>> symbolic order. Whereas Descartes said, I think therefore I am, Buddhist > >>>>> tradition embraces an idea that is precisely the opposite of this French > >>>>> conception. BuddhismAsian philosophy, generallycontends that thinking > >>>>> impedes discovery and understanding of the self. One becomes who one is > >>>>> by > >>>>> abandoning thoughtsreturning to the space of emptiness. > >>>>> Indian philosopher > >>>>> Rajneesh<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/l?u=289245D&e=31CA55&c=4BF35&t=0&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE>explains: > >>>>> "Thoughts are like clouds in the sky; they have no roots in you. > >>>>> They come and go. You're just a victim, and you unnecessarily become > >>>>> identified with them." The self, according to this view, is not the > >>>>> thinker, but the being who *experiences and observes thoughts.* > >>>>> *Because we believe The Withdrawal of Human Projection is an > >>>>> important bookand wish to assure that it achieves the widest possible > >>>>> circulationwe are offering a free copy to college instructors if you > >>>>> will > >>>>> simply ask your library to order a copy. Please respond to this > >>>>> emailwrite to oanderson@...providing your > >>>>> name and the name of your college or university. We will send you a free > >>>>> electronic copy of the entire book (identical to the physical copy, > >>>>> including the front & back cover).* > >>>>> Within the symbolic order, identity is achieved through > >>>>> "identification." We find it natural and normal to define our selves in > >>>>> terms of our relationship to cultural ideas and objects. People identify > >>>>> with nations, with a political position ("left" or "right"), with an > >>>>> ethnic > >>>>> group, a baseball team (becoming a "Yankee fan" or a "Met fan"), > >>>>> religious > >>>>> belief systems, a musical performer (becoming a Lady Gaga fan), with an > >>>>> actor or actress, or an ideology (libertarianism or socialism). > >>>>> Identifications are the foundation for what Faber calls "ordinary > >>>>> consciousness." We define ourselves by projecting existence into > >>>>> cultural > >>>>> objects. Our attachment to these objects replicates attachment to > >>>>> infantile > >>>>> love objects. Living through identification, human beings imagine that > >>>>> they > >>>>> cannot do withoutlive withoutthese beloved cultural objects. > >>>>> Buddhism seeks separation from the symbolic order: abandonment of > >>>>> cultural objects: return to our "original nature." The idea of > >>>>> "emptiness" > >>>>> lies at the heart of Buddhism. Zen master Shunryu > >>>>> Suzuki<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/l?u=289245E&e=31CA55&c=4BF35&t=0&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE>explains > >>>>> that emptiness is not merely a state of mind, but the "original > >>>>> essence of mind which Buddha experienced." Emptiness is the pure, inner > >>>>> space where language, discourse and society cannot enter. > >>>>> *Liberation from the Symbolic Order* > >>>>> Buddhismseparation from the symbolic orderimplies the possibility of > >>>>> liberation from ideologies and hegemonic societal structures. Charlotte > >>>>> Joko > >>>>> Beck<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/l?u=289245F&e=31CA55&c=4BF35&t=0&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE>states > >>>>> that the purpose of Buddhist practice is to "die slowly, step by > >>>>> step, gradually disidentifying with wherever we're caught in." As we > >>>>> identify ourselves with less and less, we can "include more and more in > >>>>> our > >>>>> lives." > >>>>> Disidentification means withdrawing psychic energy from cultural > >>>>> objects to which we had been attached. Many of us are so deeply > >>>>> invested in > >>>>> culture that we can hardly conceive or imagine such a state of being. We > >>>>> all are "fans"people who are fanatically committed or devoted to > >>>>> cultural > >>>>> objects. > >>>>> We imagine that we benefit enormously by virtue of our relationship to > >>>>> society. Yet, we often feel tormented. Culture (e. g., the mass-media) > >>>>> presents an endless, eternal stream of gratification. We feel that we > >>>>> are > >>>>> energized by this connection. > >>>>> Perhaps, however, an image from *The > >>>>> Matrix*<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/l?u=2892460&e=31CA55&c=4BF35&t=0&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE>depicts > >>>>> the true state of affairs. Human beings are batteriesperpetually > >>>>> feeding the symbolic order. We are *tied to society by an umbilical > >>>>> cord, *precisely as an unborn child is tied to its mother. We feel we > >>>>> are being nourished by the images that enter from the Matrix. In > >>>>> reality, > >>>>> we are feeding the Matrix with the substance of our bodies. > >>>>> *Because we believe The Withdrawal of Human Projection is an > >>>>> important bookand wish to assure that it achieves the widest possible > >>>>> circulationwe are offering a free copy to college instructors if you > >>>>> will > >>>>> simply ask your library to order a copy. Please respond to this > >>>>> emailwrite to oanderson@...providing your > >>>>> name and the name of your college or university. We will send you a free > >>>>> electronic copy of the entire book (identical to the physical copy, > >>>>> including the front & back cover).* > >>>>> *EXCERPTS FROM THE WITHDRAWAL > >>>>> OF HUMAN PROJECTION > >>>>> > >>>>> M. D. Faber on Money, Capitalism and Consumerism* > >>>>> The drive for wealth is closely bound up with the drive for > >>>>> omnipotence. *Money denies dependence. *Because money functions as an > >>>>> agent of control at the deep psychological level, providing the > >>>>> dependent > >>>>> personality with the dream of unlimited power, wealth becomes in the > >>>>> transitional mode a means of accomplishing one's total independence. > >>>>> Were > >>>>> one to possess the object entirely one would not need the object any > >>>>> more. > >>>>> The capitalist, in his insatiable greed, is willing to sacrifice human > >>>>> beings, the very "flesh and blood, nerves and brains" of working people > >>>>> in > >>>>> order to maximize his profit, which is derived from human labor. Like > >>>>> the > >>>>> Aztecs of old, the owners of industries, of mines and factories, are > >>>>> "prodigal with human lives," casual about "wasting" the men and women to > >>>>> whom they believe they have some sort of natural right. "When profits > >>>>> are > >>>>> at stake," writes Marx, "killing is no murder," just as in the religious > >>>>> sacrifice of human beings killing is also no murder but a "religious" > >>>>> action. > >>>>> Because interest leads to money after a period of waitingand because > >>>>> money is a symbol rooted in the drive to control and reunite with the > >>>>> internalized objectinterest becomes a psychological scheme to fill time > >>>>> with the magical presence of the maternal figure. One is making money as > >>>>> time passes, and to this extent the emptiness of time is denied, the > >>>>> absence of the object is denied; indeed, the emptiness of time and the > >>>>> object's absence are only *illusions.* > >>>>> Time is not simply passing, it is breeding money, which makes one > >>>>> secure in its passing. Thus the interest in interest attests to the > >>>>> individual's desire to be imaging unconsciously the object of one's > >>>>> security *all the time, *just as the child has the mother *all the > >>>>> time *at the level of his primary, internalized *holding. *The feed > >>>>> of cash proceeds uninterruptedly at the level of transitional need. One > >>>>> "goes through life" with his lips at the breast. > >>>>> Our passionate chase after *goods *is, first. our attempt to discover > >>>>> new forms of attachment" in our alienated, kin-less culture, our > >>>>> paradise > >>>>> *lost. *We shop, buy, *consume, *feed ourselves "products," in a > >>>>> pathetic, obsessive struggle to deny the absence of those > >>>>> flesh-and-blood > >>>>> contacts that formerly tied people together and provided them with > >>>>> precious > >>>>> compensation for the *loss *of the object. Second, we make our > >>>>> obsessive economic activity, our endless oral frenzy, a part of the > >>>>> "national purpose," or indeed the national purpose *itself *("the > >>>>> richest country in the world!")in an effort to convince ourselves that > >>>>> we > >>>>> do in fact live in a genuine society, a truly cohesive group, a shared > >>>>> community of emotion and purpose. We know deep down, however, that > >>>>> loneliness and isolation are the rule. > >>>>> > >>>>> * The Withdrawal of Human Projection: > >>>>> Separating from the Symbolic Order* > >>>>> *Table of Contents* > >>>>> *Foreword by Richard A. Koenigsberg* > >>>>> > >>>>> *Acknowledgements* > >>>>> > >>>>> *Part One: The Transitional Nature of Ordinary Consciousness * > >>>>> > >>>>> 1. The Process of Mind-Body Conversion > >>>>> 2. From the Cradle > >>>>> 3. The Internalization of the World > >>>>> 4. The Mirror > >>>>> 5. The Dark Side of the Mirror: Splitting > >>>>> 6. The Agony of Differentiation > >>>>> 7. The Sands of Time and the Container of Space > >>>>> 8. The Stimulus Itself > >>>>> 9. The Ward > >>>>> 10. The Tie to the Culture > >>>>> 11. The Oedipus, and After > >>>>> 12. Notes and References Part One > >>>>> > >>>>> *Part Two: The Cultural Sphere * > >>>>> > >>>>> 1. Some Background > >>>>> 2. The Religio-Economic Realm > >>>>> 3. Money and Magna Mater > >>>>> 4. The Sacrificial Way to the Object > >>>>> 5. Sacred Lucre > >>>>> 6. Psychodynamic Extrapolations > >>>>> 7. The Metaphors of Marx > >>>>> 8. The Interest in Interest > >>>>> 9. The Vicious Circle and the Bad Parent > >>>>> 10. More Opiates, More Anxieties > >>>>> 11. Lurking Ambivalence > >>>>> 12. Goods and More Goods > >>>>> 13. Notes and References Part Two > >>>>> > >>>>> *Part Three: Disrupting the Tie to the Inner World* > >>>>> > >>>>> 1. A Glance Backward, A Glance Forward > >>>>> 2. The Meaning of Non-Ordinary Moments > >>>>> 3. The Emergence of the Non-Ordinary World > >>>>> 4. Solidifying One's Change > >>>>> 5. Transforming the Past at the Mind-Body Level > >>>>> 6. Notes and References Part Three > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> *Because we believe The Withdrawal of Human Projection is an > >>>>> important bookand wish to assure that it achieves the widest possible > >>>>> circulationwe are offering a free copy to college instructors if you > >>>>> will > >>>>> simply ask your library to order a copy. Please respond to this > >>>>> emailwrite to oanderson@...providing your > >>>>> name and the name of your college or university. We will send you a free > >>>>> electronic copy of the entire book (identical to the physical copy, > >>>>> including the front & back cover).* > >>>>> This message was sent to bmlester@... by > >>>>> oanderson@... > >>>>> Unsubscribe<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/su?e=31CA55&c=4BF35&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE&relid=2E04A96C>| > >>>>> Manage > >>>>> Subscription<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/s?e=31CA55&c=4BF35&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE&relid=2E04A96C>| > >>>>> Forward > >>>>> Email<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/f?e=31CA55&c=4BF35&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE&relid=2E04A96C>| > >>>>> Report > >>>>> Abuse<http://www.benchmarkemail.com/Abuse?e=31CA55&c=4BF35&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE&relid=2E04A96C> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> <http://www.benchmarkemail.com/sign-up/email?utm_source=cus-foot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ft-logo-footer&e=31CA55&c=4BF35&l=4E9ADE8&email=ixXm0ij%2BbPTN6%2BIQ4YtZ3gUPiXYo5miE&relid=2E04A96C> > >>>>> 92-30 56th Ave Ste 3E, Elmhurst, NY, 11373 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> *Larry Maher* > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > -- > > *Larry Maher* > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! 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