Dear Ryunen,
I just wish Alex could look at what he says from outside himself. Exactly why a teacher is so essential. Mike.
ps throw in a couple of prostrations to Fudo for me will you.
jayryunen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
jayryunen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mike,
Great story.
Yes, exactly. And trying to put that pass through experience into words is our
continuing, laughable trial. =) Especially for one such as Alex, who has a lot of words
and cleverness, a little understanding, and is still half a bubble off plumb. Been there,
done that, 100,000 prostrations to my teacher for helping me.
Blessings,
Ryunen
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Ryunen,
>
> Yes, very helpful. "Intellectual chatter" is very
> subtle when it's masquerading as the all-knowing, wise
> old man!
>
> I read an interesting story a while back of a lecturer
> (may have been Wittgenstein or Derrida) who would
> throw a matchbox at a student and say:
>
> "What's this?".
>
> Taking the bait the student would reply, "A matchbox!"
> to which the lecturer holding the matchbox would
> reply,
>
> "No! 'matchbox' is a sound - what's *this*?".
>
> Sometimes I feel like the student (of course it's just
> a bloody matchbox!), and other times I feel like the
> lecturer (when I 'see' the thing in front of me
> stripped of labels/concepts/abstractions and standing
> there empty and not at all separate - a bit like the
> "10,000 things" realising me). In this 'state' there
> is no self; no path; no suffering; no ears, no nose
> etc (you get my drift?). It's not an intellectual
> understanding. Mike.
>
>
>
> --- jayryunen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ---------------------------------
> >can 'things' ever be
> > "right" or "wrong"? To my mind, 'no-thing' can ever
> be
> > inherently right or wrong (or for that matter,
> > sometimes right.. sometimes wrong) just as things
> can
> > never be inherently long/short; beautiful/ugly;
> > big/small etc. Isn't to perceive things as right or
> > wrong to presuppose a subject to which these
> 'things'
> > (object) happen - (and hence the subjects' labeling
> of
> > these 'not-I' things as "right", "wrong" etc?).
>
> Yes, these terms are used relatively.
> >
> > Of course, by greeting you the way I did I
> immediately
> > created a subject/object duality, but doesn't this
> > just illustrate how strong the urge to symbolise
> > concepts is rather than deal with the reality that
> > there is no subject/object? "You"/"I" then (no
> matter
> > how real the duality seems), is only a useful
> > convention and is no more inherent in reality than
> the
> > labels "right/wrong"; "long/short"; "good/bad" etc.
>
> Here things get murky in your statement. As you
> addressed Genryu, what was your
> experience? If there was a sense of an "I" am doing
> this, then duality is the
> experience, regardless of the intellectual chatter. At
> this moment "I" and my
> aggregates are sitting here typing to "you". Thus,
> there is delusion, karma being
> experienced.
>
> If the experience was one of emptiness, then the use
> of "I" would be the bodhisattva's
> use of the conventional "I" that is merely a label.
>
> One must practice strong mindfulness to be aware of
> the subtle "I" that accompanies
> us, even when we have purified gross levels of
> attachment.
>
> Any help?
> Ryunen
>
>
>
> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention,
> Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right
> Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood
>
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