> If I remember correctly, Daomou (that's the Chinese name we used for one very famous Indian Monk who came and taught Buddhism in China), it took him 9 years faced the wall in a cave to find the enlightenment of his ways. That was the part that I referred to 'sit down and face wall, which I meant going through very serious deep reflection as Daomou had done at his time.
OK. I think this is the same guy we know here as Bodhidharma, first Chinese ancestor. As I was taught, however, he did not engage in serious reflection in the sense of self- review. If he was engaged in zazen, he was actually trying to withdraw from such mental activity. Self reflection, self recollection is necessary to understanding who we are in a relative, personal sense, how we approach our relationships with life. However, as I understand it, it is not zazen. > Personally I think there are again two layers of 'not knowing', one is unconsciously unknowing which can be many reasons, e.g. stupidity or simply not sensitive enough or never bothered with self-reflection process, etc.; and the other is, of course, intentionally to ignore. The way I understand about the non-conceptuality means that person is able to reach the level of vigilance. For me, that is the toughest one comparing with abstaining from carnal pleasure, hearing,seeing,tasting and smelling. Could you explain what you mean by vigilance? Constant watchfulness? Monitoring of the self? > As regards to the "Not knowing" arises in the meditation, it reminds me one conversation I had with a Belgian Tai Chi trainer who invited me to give Chinese tea ceremony to his students two years ago. At that time, he tried to tell his students that they should be able to see 'things' in the meditation. I first did not dare to say a word, until he asked me if I saw 'thing' when I did my meditation. My answer to him then was, "I have no intention to see or not to see anything prior to meditation, perhaps there are colors or shadows floating through my eyes during the process, and I have no intention to catch either one of them and try to interpret what I have seen, so when I finish my meditation I feel relax and refreshing. My goal in meditation is to relax my mind, body and spirit." There are many different types of meditation. Searching for a thing is a type of Tibetan/emptiness meditation. Intention-less awareness is another. In my experience, both can give rise to "not knowing". Meditation for relaxation is another kind of meditation. Of the three mentioned here, intention-less awareness is closest to zazen. One doesn't always arise relaxed and refreshed, especially when resistence arises. > When giving the negotiation course to business executives, often people asked for my opinion about who is the great negotiator in the world. My standard answer is "The moment anyone thinks s/he is the greatest, s/he has stopped her/his own progress; the greatest negotiators are those who constantly in the learning pipeline.". I have the same thinking in the Zen learning. I agree, I agree. =) I think it is helpful if you understand that not all meditation is zazen or shikantaza. Buddha taught many, many different types, depending on the needs and understanding of the person he was speaking to. Maybe some others on the list can help us to understand what the practice of zazen is. The initial, simple instructions. Do you have Dogen's Fukenzazengi? Or Zazengi? A very good book, if you can get it where you are, is The Art of Just Sitting, edited by John Daido Loori. It has many of the basic writings in it. Blessings, Ryunen ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
