Long-winded! AND you didn't even address the question! I see YOU took the honey offered, and used it to rattle on about what you think others think about what you think. (Oh, and of course to recruit students). I think you're funnier when you're worshiping your attachment to the 'such-and-such doesn't exist' idea that you mined from some texts -- (at least you're brief about that nonsense.)
Okay -- besides adding cynicism, let me add a hand, too. Its not that I don't think one should pursue the limits of intellectual ability -- its that intellectual ability does not represent the limits of your humanity. When you return from the store with 5 gallon tubs of butter, its not that we think butter is bad, but you're missing the bread, and fruit, and meat. After we knock one tub of butter to the floor, you think we don't appreciate all the butter you've collected... (I can picture someone muttering as they scrape the soiled butter backinto the pails, "Fools... Don't even know good butter when they see it.") Rod -----Original Message----- From: Alex Bunard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 2:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] question for you Alex --- Jill H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > my question is about this idea that "the boundaries that delineate > forms are nothing but the very emptiness that frees and liberates us > from any possibility of pain" portion of your statement. could you > talk about that a bit more? Unfortunatelly, I can only talk about that a lot more. There isn't a way for me to be concise about these things without introducing a very real danger of being this touchy-feely mumbo-jumbo purveyor. I mean, I could now easily play 'wise' and utter something terse, something out of the left field, something non-intellectual. That would certainly score me big points with the crowd (honey, not vinegar for the flies). But, since I'm not in the business of deceiving people, I'll abstain from throwing dust into people's eyes. As you already know, most people today come to the Buddhist practice (and especially to Zen) because someone had sold them the bill of goods that states how in Buddhism not only are you not expected to think, you are actually activelly prohibited from thinking. And for most people, who are anyway tired of thinking and of having all these intellectual, rational responsibilities, this is like preaching to the converted. Or, put slightly differently, that dictum ('thinking is not allowed here') sounds like music to their ears. Oh, what a relief! You will have noticed that most people on this forum, for example, exhibit violent hostility towards any signs of active, reflective thinking. However, here is what Edward Conze had to say about that particular proclivity: "True realization can only be found if spiritual insight is married to intellectual ability, and coupled with a delight in the use of the intellect." The above is certainly not something that Fudo and his henchmen on this list would approve. However, say what you will, Conze is right. So, the long winded answer to your request is that I can certainly shed more light on the above issue, but only providing that it is acceptable to be factual, intellectual, to pursue the very limits of our intellectual ability. Otherwise, I'll be just wasting everyone's time here. So, if anyone's interested in pursuing the enlightenment the hard way (i.e. the real way, instead of sitting like a frog all day long), just let me know, and we can start the journey. Sincerely, Alex ("first two months are free") No karma was produced during the composition of this letter __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It is easier than you think. Click Here to meet a Child you can help. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It is easier than you think. Click Here to meet a Child you can help. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
