I thought I held the title for metaphors on this forum, but you've left me on the straightaway, Fudo :) and on masturbation, no less.
Rod Scholl -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kyukyo Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Shikantaza. On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 08:11 +0300, James Haines wrote: > If someone asks a question here and the people on this list who "know" > hug > their wisdom to their chests, isn't it obvious that those who "don't > know" > are going to be the ones who fill the gap and answer? Dear James, Hmm. I thought directing someone toward a real practice was much better than letting them think they had a real practice sitting all alone in some sort of self-indulgent spiritual onanism. I really do not care about how well one masturbates, nor how often. I do not see much point in giving someone advice on how to stroke their wienie and pretend they are doing something important. If one wishes to have a child, instruction on masturbation is fairly useless. Others may waste time in being kind enough to offer suggestions on how to intensify the masturbatory experience, there are enough kind people who think they are being helpful because masturbation has done so much for them. (well, it makes them feel good while they fail) The advice to first find a female would be much more practical if the person so interested in his wienie really wants a child. It appears the person in question is more interested in how it feels to stroke his wienie. If you want to have a Zen practice, find a sangha and teacher. This is real advice in how to have a real Zen practice. The teacher will take it from there. This is the first step. There are no other steps before it. Until you have a teacher and a sangha you are not practicing Zen, you are masturbating. If you want advice like "Oooh it feels soo good!!! ........I like to spit on my hand before I stroke off. The spit seems to work as a lubricant that mimicks the vaginal secretions that keep you from getting blisters in delicate places". Then quit pretending to practice Zen and just really whack off...it will make you more mellow, change your attitude..make real changes in your prostate health.. and generally do more for you then sitting all alone in playing with your self-indulgent thoughts. I do not know how to give more practical advice to give to someone who wants to practice Zen than that they find a Zen teacher. Shikantaza is a specific practice of a specific school of Zen. It is a Soto Practice. If you want to do Shikan-taza there are specific prerequisites to actually doing this practice in the way it was designed...one:a teacher, two: a sangha. These things were assumed by Dogen (he coined the term shikan- taza there might have been similar Chinese words before that to describe the practice but Dogen was the first to use the term in Japanese) since he was addressing people who already had both. If you do not have these prerequisites, you are not practicing shikan- taza. Period. So if you want to practice shikan-taza....well first you get the prerequisites. If you want to have a child you need a sperm and an egg....well so far at least.....so first procure a sperm and an egg...and some way to bring the embryo to maturity....so far the best solution would be a womb.......so "get a girlfriend" would be step one. One would think the next question would be "Well how do I get a girl friend?" (seek the advice of a successful person to help you)..or "what if I do not want a girl friend?"...then check "Do you really want a child?" If the answer is yes then seek out alternatives that have a decent success rate...adoption...find a surrogate mother...etc.(perhaps consult an expert on these alternatives).......I doubt "begin to masturbate" would be any sane person's recommendation. As you can see There are no shortage of people with masturbation instructions if that is what you want. If you want advice on a Zen practice you first have to know there is a difference between Zen practice and masturbation. What is this person is really asking for? There is a difference between masturbation and sexual reproduction..even if they make use of some of the same body parts. This forum is not sufficient for the teaching of Zen. You cannot get someone pregnant on this forum either. In both cases you need a real relationship in the real world. I do not attempt to teach zen on this forum, I attempt to direct people to a real relationship in the real world. One can argue whether advice like "rub it here" increases ones desire for actual sexual reproduction, but it my experience that all it does is delay the working on a real relationship. I think we are going around about which methods are most effective to get someone into a real zen practice...you are looking at how to hook up each individual... I am looking at how to get the most successful outcomes. It is a different approach...not all individuals are suited for Zen practice, I am not interested in trying to fit in someone who has little chance of being successful in their Zen practice. The response to this is often how do you know if someone has a chance of being successful?... Well there is an entrance exam...if you can't pass it ..you will probably not be successful. The first question on the exam is a life essay. Find a teacher. Be Well Fudo ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It is easier than you think. Click Here to meet a Child you can help. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It is easier than you think. Click Here to meet a Child you can help. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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