I am getting  a bit off base here as we are having a discussion in two
dimensions.  Comments on Fair and on Zion both seem to be on topic. This is
a repeat of what I said on the other list

I approach the problem differently than do some of you, in that I look at
the descriptions given of God, accept them, try to understand them, and then
go from there.  I accept that all the Omni's mean what they say - all
knowing, all powerful, all loving, all everything.

In addition I see that many people get hung up on the idea that God is
subject to laws that have been given Him either by His Father, or by the
natural state of things.  It seems to me that we need to look at the
relationship with God as dealing with the universe of His creations *only*.
All other universe's with other Gods do not have anything directly to do
with us. The "natural" laws could be different in those worlds.  So we can
truly say that there is only one God, there was a unique creation, there is
for us a prime mover, etc, etc.  I understand and accept the notion that
there is no pure prime mover as our God went through the same process we do,
however it only concerns us to deal with this universe and these laws.

Now if God is all knowing,  and sec 93 about the past, present, and future
is correct, then God has a unique, from us, perspective on the world.  He
can know ALL! and according to my understanding would not be God if he did
not.  I put no limitations on God, other than He does himself (which he

It is tricky to see how this works with our full agency.  Our real agency
was exercised in the pre-existence.  That is when we understood all and made
the fateful decision.  We no longer have full and complete agency, in that
we do not now have a full knowledge of all that is required to have agency.
When we make a decision, either now or in the pre-existence we give up some
of the freedom we had to do otherwise.  So it is on this earth.  We have
limited agency, but we had perfect agency when we made the choice to come
here.  Because God foreordains, based on complete fore knowledge, does not
mean He forechooses. He arranges the world so that each of us have an
opportunity to maximize our potential, according to His perfect
understanding of who and what we are.  When we act according to our
foreordination we then satisfy His expectations and His complete knowledge
and gain the reward we have been promised.

This is the only way that the plan could work.  If it were left up to the
random choices of men, without God knowing what we would do, then there
would be no justice in the plan, as our results would depend on the actions,
some unexpected, of others.  That would not be just or merciful.

I reject the idea of God having limitation of any sort.  This is conforming
to the definition of what God is.  He obeys His laws because it is His will
to do so.

As always if I am wrong, I am willing, and anxious, to repent real fast.
However, if you take a bit of time and ponder it I believe that you will
come to the same conclusion I have come to.

Bless you all,


George Cobabe, CLU, ChFC
Ogden, Utah

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