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Jens Vagelpohl wrote:

>> I'm still -1 on merging the branch as it is and Stefan confirmed  that
>> PortalTestCase should not be used directly: http://
>> mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-cmf/2005-September/022932.html

Lets work on replacing the PortalTestCase in Testing.ZopeTestCase with a
abstract 'SiteTestCase' in CMFCore.tests.base.testcase, and a concrete
'DefaultSiteTestCase' someplace like CMFDefault.tests.common.  We can
then have Stefan follow through with deprecating PTC in Zope 2.8, and
removing it in 2.9.  In the meanwhile, for backward compatibility, we
might need to be willing to monkey patch
Testing.ZopeTestCase.PortalTestCase, if it is present, to use our new

> How about a compromise: I'll spend a little time tomorrow rewriting 
> that test module so it does not use ZopeTestCase at all.

Excellent.  Another option would be to move the test into CMFDefault,
where it might be appropriate to use 'DefaultSiteTestCase'.

> The changes on this branch are good and valuable, and a final  decision
> and implementation of the extended testing fixtures problem  will
> probably take a while...

I'd really like to second Jens here.  Geoff's contribution here is a
real win, and only incidentally provoked this rather extended wrangle
about how to do the testing properly.  At least in part, this wrangle
has been useful, as it is forcing us to think hard about how we manage
our dependencies;  we've been doing that informally, (but have messed
up, too) but don't have any writeup of the "Right Way" to write and run
tests within the various pieces of the CMF.

If we are going to expand participation (e.g., to welcome contributions
from Plone folks), we need to be careful that we set and keep the tone
with which we receive those contributions appropriate. Writing up the
"developer's crib sheet" would help, so that we had something objective
describing how we do development;  focusing on encouraging / fostering
new CMF developers will help, too.  Keeping the discussion positive is
something we can all do to make the community more welcoming.

- --
Tres Seaver          +1 202-558-7113          [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"    http://palladion.com
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