Martin Aspeli wrote:
>> Unless Utopia really exists I think developers all have their own
>> thoughts about setting up their development environment.
> Maybe. Except if we (the plone core developers) use ploneout then we are
> all using the same environment, and we duplicate less work.
Same reasoning I had with instancemanager, so I agree. I explicitly made
it reasonable easy to set some defaults to have it fit everyone's
favourite way of ordering his stuff. Instance in ~/instances/philips by
default, but Jean-Paul can set it to a default of ~/Sites/philips, for
But even with that level of adaptability-to-individual-taste, not
everyone uses it for our zest projects. Rocky not, iirc, for instance.
So: "it duplicates less work" and "we all would have the same
environment" are great reasons, but they don't always work :-)
>> Again most developers are pretty demanding about setting up a
>> development environment. Here at Zest most of us are comfortable with
> That's possibly something to do with the fact that you wrote it :)
> I'm not saying it isn't great, and there's no reason why people
> shouldn't use it if it works for them. But zc.buildout predates it,
> seems to be adopted more and more in the Zope 3 world (including people
> like grok), seems more flexible to me... and I like it. :)
Well, predates it... Theoretically, yes. But in practice it was some
internal zope corp tool. I only first noticed it when Jim gave a talk
about the new improved egg-using version at 2006's Europython. Later
that same day I gave a lightning talk about instancemanager. So at least
to my viewpoint, it has the same age.
> Ultimately, though, it doesn't really matter what people use. However,
> at the upcoming Amsterdam sprint, I intend to ask people to do this:
> $ svn co https://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/ploneout/trunk plone3
> $ cd plone3
> $ python bootstrap.py
> $ ./bin/buildout
> and they will have a Plone 3 instance to develop from. I won't be
> helping anyone set up Plone in another way, simply because from previous
> sprints I know that we waste an awful lot of time on something so simple
> as getting people to symlinks eggs around (yipes). During Plone 3
> development, dealing with two bundles (which meant each review bundle
> needed two bundles as well) that explicitly check out various eggs was a
> pain in the ass as well.
Something that automates this is very useful. I started instancemanager
for the same reason: to do away with hour-long bughunts just because
someone had an old product lying around.
>From what I understand, Jean-Paul has an instancemanager configuration
that builds a nice plone 3.0 instance from the normal, unmodified bundle
with just a few lines of instancemanager configuration.
Just keep the bundle sane and everything should be OK. Either
buildout/ploneout or instancemanager can help. The goal is the same.
Reinout van Rees r.van.rees @ zestsoftware.nl
"Military engineers build missiles. Civil engineers build targets."
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