Tres Seaver wrote: [snip] > The reality is that the zope.app.* packages don't fit the mission of the > ZTK: they aren't widely-reusable libraries, but pieces of a particular > appserver / framework. The other reality is that nobody is stepping up > to do the work to maintain that appserver.
I agree. But I'm not talking about maintaining the app server. I'm talking about helping people to move away from most of those packages, or otherwise find ways to maintain them. > There is *not* BBB issue with dropping those packagse from the ZTK, > because everybody who is currently deployed with them has a valid way to > use them *without* the ZTK. Pushing the burden of maintenance of those > packages onto the ZTK, instaead of onto the portions of the community > who use them, reduces the viability of the ZTK for almost no gain. I think the ZTK developers have a responsibility to this use of the ZTK just like to anyone else's use. Just stopping to test whether all of this works with the ZTK isn't fulfilling our responsibility. [snip] > Defining those upgrade paths is the responsibility of the various groups > consuming the (new) ZTK: in the case of Zope2, the Zope2 maintainers > have chosen to do the work to remove all dependencies on zope.app.* > packages from Zope2, leaving Zope2 free to use a zope-app-free ZTK > without any issues. Maintaining a coherent set of versions of zope.app.* packages is a responsibility that we can share in our community. Dropping this responsibility into a black hole by suddenly stopping to do so within the context of the ZTK is not the right way forward. >>> For Zope2 we have covered the upgrade story already. Zope 2.12 uses >>> its own KGS, which includes the entire set of zope.app packages in >>> compatible versions. >> Let's please please please maintain that set of zope.app.* packages >> centrally. Zope 2 isn't the only consumer of these packages. > > What set? Why do you think that any given set of them is worth > maintaining? Grok uses some subset of them, while a Zope3 app uses a > bigger set, but Zope2 uses none: why is Grok's set (or Zope3's) > important enough for the wider group of ZTK developers to care about? Because we have a ton of installed base out there and we have a responsibility to maintain backwards compatibility. If some people don't care about that it's fine, but I expect at least some measure of cooperation with those who do. >> -1 to this change. I'm going to add the zope.app.* packages back to the >> ZTK until we've had a proper discussion about how, as a Zope community, >> we go forward with this. Delegating this responsibility *separately* to >> sub projects is just plain silly. > > You are treading on very dangerous ground here: commit wars are not a > good way to solve this problem. Sure. Unilaterally removing a huge amount of packages from a shared KGS is also not a good way to solve this problem. Regards, Martijn _______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )