Tres Seaver wrote:
> The reality is that the zope.app.* packages don't fit the mission of the
> ZTK: they aren't widely-reusable libraries, but pieces of a particular
> appserver / framework. The other reality is that nobody is stepping up
> to do the work to maintain that appserver.
I agree. But I'm not talking about maintaining the app server. I'm
talking about helping people to move away from most of those packages,
or otherwise find ways to maintain them.
> There is *not* BBB issue with dropping those packagse from the ZTK,
> because everybody who is currently deployed with them has a valid way to
> use them *without* the ZTK. Pushing the burden of maintenance of those
> packages onto the ZTK, instaead of onto the portions of the community
> who use them, reduces the viability of the ZTK for almost no gain.
I think the ZTK developers have a responsibility to this use of the ZTK
just like to anyone else's use. Just stopping to test whether all of
this works with the ZTK isn't fulfilling our responsibility.
> Defining those upgrade paths is the responsibility of the various groups
> consuming the (new) ZTK: in the case of Zope2, the Zope2 maintainers
> have chosen to do the work to remove all dependencies on zope.app.*
> packages from Zope2, leaving Zope2 free to use a zope-app-free ZTK
> without any issues.
Maintaining a coherent set of versions of zope.app.* packages is a
responsibility that we can share in our community. Dropping this
responsibility into a black hole by suddenly stopping to do so within
the context of the ZTK is not the right way forward.
>>> For Zope2 we have covered the upgrade story already. Zope 2.12 uses
>>> its own KGS, which includes the entire set of zope.app packages in
>>> compatible versions.
>> Let's please please please maintain that set of zope.app.* packages
>> centrally. Zope 2 isn't the only consumer of these packages.
> What set? Why do you think that any given set of them is worth
> maintaining? Grok uses some subset of them, while a Zope3 app uses a
> bigger set, but Zope2 uses none: why is Grok's set (or Zope3's)
> important enough for the wider group of ZTK developers to care about?
Because we have a ton of installed base out there and we have a
responsibility to maintain backwards compatibility. If some people don't
care about that it's fine, but I expect at least some measure of
cooperation with those who do.
>> -1 to this change. I'm going to add the zope.app.* packages back to the
>> ZTK until we've had a proper discussion about how, as a Zope community,
>> we go forward with this. Delegating this responsibility *separately* to
>> sub projects is just plain silly.
> You are treading on very dangerous ground here: commit wars are not a
> good way to solve this problem.
Sure. Unilaterally removing a huge amount of packages from a shared KGS
is also not a good way to solve this problem.
Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
(Related lists -