-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 And btw.: "Zope 3" is dead
There is only the ZTK and Bluebream as ZTK-based application server. - -aj Christopher Lozinski wrote: > First of all my compliments to all of the people who put in enormous > amounts of work first figuring out how to build Zope 3, and then > building it. I am most grateful I hope that these comments help you > better understand your market. > > I should say that I have been using Zope 2 since 1999 and watching Zope > 3 for the longest time. I just could not get it. Python is cool, but > interfaces, adaptors, zcml etc just made my eyes glaze over. I now > understand why all that was necessary, but it was off putting. I > finally have an app I need to write, but the complexity quite delayed my > working with Zope 3. What is needed is a simple model to get people > hooked. > > So how to make Blue Bream easier to use? I propose making the initial > start up interface a simple content management system, kind of a Plone > light. We all know there is way too much stuff under the hood of > Plone. It slows software evolution. In contrast I know that Zope 3 is > easy to evolve, just getting started is hard. So everyone starts in > Plone, but never migrates to Zope 3. So a simple content management > system out of the box would make it very easy to get started in Blue > Bream. Then users could grow into the system. > > I know Plone just had a new release . I am not sure what all is in it, > but it would be great if Zope 3 on startup looked just like Plone, as > far as possible. Right out of the box allow users to register > themselves, and add in the stock content types. Calendar item, news > item, things like that, not the developer centric ZPT and DTML file. > Also allow the developer stuff, but under a different branch of a > hierarchical menu system. Maybe only people with a developer or > manager permission see those kinds of items. > > There are three parts to a simple content management system. First, a > way to generate new content types, and second some dtml or page > templates to display them. Finally some examples would also be useful. > > So the critical thing I need is a way to put up custom content types > using a web interface to build the schema. Maybe I could even add a few > python scripts. And click on some options that usually go in an zcml > file. That would make it super fast to put up a custom content type. > That would make for a very easy entry for someone like myself into > building a new BlueBream application. > > Then I need to add some DTML or page templates to display those content > types. I can already do that right through the web. > > Finally a few existing content types like calendar item, link, and > article would provide for great examples if anyone wanted to modify or > copy them. They could be implemented through the web as examples or > base classes to be inherited or modified. > > That would be an awesome demo. A real simple way to get started in Zope > 3. A simple abstraction that would make it accessible to those stupider > developers like myself. And everyone else out there. Once hooked, > over time we could dig deeper. > > That is all I want. A simple content management system out of the box, > make it easy to add my own content type. Sure the serious hackers can > throw all that out, but for the average end user/developer, that would > be a hugely tempting improvement over using Plone. If I can add a few > dtml pages to display my content, it would all be very easy to get > started. Later I could export to the file system, and svn. > > But that is not what I currently get. Instead, in my case, we will go > with the system admin manually adding users for a while. And I have to > learn how to write an interface file, which is way way more difficult > than just using a web form to define one. The web form, lays out my > choices, and only allows for legal schema definitions. Much better. > > Okay, so much for my wish list. Here are some more specific comments. > > Thank you for providing the user interface. Registration is quite > confusing. First I create something, then I have to register it. > Hello, if I created it, then just go ahead and register it for me. Take > a ZPT page. I am a zope 2 developer. I know what that is. Then they > ask me to register it. Took a while to figure out what that means. I > still have no idea what all those options for interfaces are. If you > have to have all those choices there, just label one default for me. It > can't be that hard. Maybe register one by default, and provide the > option to change it. Make the page say clearly that something has been > registered. And have a clear link to the help page for choosing an > interface to register. Or should I say change to. > > Then I cannot add a python script through the user interface. What > happened to that stuff? Are python scripts dead? I loved them. > > Actually I Preferred the Zope 2 pull down menu of things to add. Over > time it did get a bit long. Good to have a hierarchy of things to add. > Best to have a hierarchy of things to add. > > Hope that helps. I really just want to give good feedback. I hope > that I have not offended anyone with my frank feedback. Overall Zope 3 > looks great, and is very fast for development. But I think we could > make it significantly easier for new users to get started with. > > Chris > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-Dev maillist - [email protected] > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) - -- ZOPYX Limited | zopyx group Charlottenstr. 37/1 | The full-service network for Zope & Plone D-72070 Tübingen | Produce & Publish www.zopyx.com | www.produce-and-publish.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ E-Publishing, Python, Zope & Plone development, Consulting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJMg3u7AAoJEADcfz7u4AZjgNcLwKareWppVr/d2v27X3hlEVvL vSOldbQ6skLpTdyySZnve8dURjaJg0UUsp/WRRR6c0BniSIQ5nzxslGwriIWSWIf i+EQHhsSwI7GZDVZXTuzm/mX3x6dVZt8PEKL9jcCayexNYYTByXFY8Z4CoIKKza2 SCF9j6W3WgJmm7R7OxBphoTmvC+cHnP3X3svRV2/dhb0FlDmDtftuKx2myXcVHfs 0vB5ZdVY1AdcWaJH0/Q1DW2yWHz4jpDHvzNYX4ZQyKGC+rVDx1I1icLSxhPuBM6G Sf7KXdM3Ik7t/c356oMsDmG45YAWbWlPqJd2NfY0U6l0N239rqwhmB0JC+f1ZbYC qwC1GGtZNbs9w88dWrA5JwEnoaMrGIphPfoJFqsVoyIhS7gzOml+LFGXBJcnlSbt goDk0EhhCJEfMYkE5egVqUEDmK624+oHZ+JwHuDsaMRUAeIXH8VtVCD4hFOhVo+5 8TR09gQSNxyJNComCVd4umIhyWx9jo8= =/iqx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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