On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:13:03 -0000, Rocky Burt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

1) The Zope 3 name and brand is a marketing disaster (from my
perspective) -- to be honest there's really no way I could see this
actually getting worse by coming up with a new name.  How many times in
the #plone channel do we get asked, "Does Plone run on Zope 3.1/3.2?"
or, "When will Plone run on Zope 3.2" to which we say "no" to the first
question and "dunno" to the second question.

Actually not as often as I'd feared, but that has more to do with the fact that people don't know they're running on Zope and they don't really know that Zope 3 exists and is in any way different from Zope 2.8 with some bug fixes. Thus proving your point, I think. :)

2) Today when I build new applications with Plone, the best I can hope
for is to use Zope 3 as a framework and Zope 2 as a deployment platform.
Although the reality is I still use Zope 2 as a framework faaaar too
much as well.  I'm hoping (expecting) that Five will continue to make
the requirement to use Zope 2 as a framework diminish more and more.  As
a developer, I certainly prefer working with Zope 3 "the framework" over
Zope 2 "the framework".

+1 (and thanks for all your hard work in making this better)

  1) rename zope 3 the framework as Z or zopelib or Zed or something
sensical that doesn't confuse the early adopter's conquest of trying to
figure out which zope to start with
  2) Make zope 2 the application server acquire the name "zope" once
again and be the only app server.  This could only work (from a new
adopter's perspective) if either the application server is given a new
name or given a version number higher than 3.

3) make Zope3-the-application-server have a different name too. It may not make sense to use Zope2-the-app-server always, and eventually we'll hopefully evolve the appserver parts of Zope2 to use Zope3 technologies (the different configurations, same application idea, but we're some way off that). But in the meantime (a loong meantime) there's zope2 and zope3 appservers that serve different purposes and have different strenghts and weaknesses.

Who are we worried aboug confusing here? Existing Zope 3 developers?
Zope 2 developers?  I don't think so, those people are smart enough to
figure it out.  So I say lets focus on not confusing new adopters in




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