[Florent]
Time and again people fail to realize that Zope 3 wants to create the low level framework right first, and only after that add high level simplifications and shortcuts to have less configuration and provide fastest developer exeperience. Of course people aren't attracted to Zope 3 yet because they feel it's complex. And there's a reason: it *is* complex. For now.


[Shane]
So you don't think anyone but hard core Pythonistas should use Zope 3 yet?

[Chris]
Does anyone think that code generation in the form of a "starter package" could help here?

It would be a great experiment. Zope 3 currently inherits the Zope 2 tradition of starting with a full application, including a management UI, and developers add to that existing application. It would be valuable to explore an approach where developers start with a simple application (with no management UI) that they are expected to replace rather expand. I expect that developers would have a great experience initially that way.

Most web frameworks have developers start with a minimal, replaceable application, but application developers write code in ways that hinder integration with other web applications even though they use the same framework. The theory behind Zope's configuration system is that application developers *will* be able to integrate after all, at least for a longer time than they can now. A starter package generator would test that theory.

Shane
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