Andrew Milton wrote:
> You took someone else's work and claimed it as your own. This is the worst 
> crime 
> you can commit in the Open Source world. 

I think it's not really a discussion about Open Source here as it should
make no difference to the Zope community whether ZC or ZEA is holding
the TM. Both don't represent it and both possibly could do harm to it if
they just wanted to (which they don't want as I see it).

I think it's more a story about a company which some time ago made their
software open source. The result of that was a big win for the Zope
project as it attracted a lot of developers and, as a result, created a
lot of additional projects like Silva, Plone, CPS etc. So now we have
quite a big community advocating the use of Zope and now also doing the
main development of the software itself (in form of Zope3).
I am part of that community and I am proud of that :-)
So from Zope having it's roots in that company these problems arise IMHO.

So having said that I am a bit disappointed by the recent discussions
here as it's maybe the sign of some unresolved problems between certain
important players in the Zope world.

Some points:

- How the thread was started by ZC was IMHO not really good style. For
  me it sounded like very hard words and threatening with not doing the
  foundation did not sound too good and not really a good thing for the
  community. I also still don't understand what the foundation has to do
  with the actual TM discussion - wasn't it just the logo about which
  was being discussed?
  So what would have happened in the case if not ZEA did register it but
  any evil guy?
  To hold the creation of the Foundation should not have been the answer
  in any case!

- if ZEA has registered the TM without telling ZC this is of course not
  ok. I understand if you don't discuss it loudly so that other parties
  hurry to register it but it could have been solved easily back then
  with a silent negotiation between the two parties.
  (too bad ZC did not simply register everything themselves so we would
  have one discussion less)

- in general: Bashing each other will not help Zope and not the
  community. And a damaged community cannot help ZC or ZEA or any other
  player in the Zope world. So it should be in everyones interest to
  keep things going in a good mood.

So that much about the form now more about my worries about the TM
itself. Legally of course ZC is the right owner of the TMs as they
created Zope. But OTOH it would feel more right if the TM would be
transferred to the Zope Foundation. ZC once opensourced their project
and the main work in terms of coding and marketing seems to be done by
the community now and less and less by ZC (at least it seems to
me that way). And for me Zope also feels like an open source project
through and through and not something belonging to some single company.
>From what I see that's also the way most of the rest of the world thinks
about it, especially in Europe. Thus for me it would just feel better if
also the TM would be given to the community in form of the foundation
(as "the community" is no real legal person the foundation might be the
next possible thing).

I also read about the irrevocable license given to the Zope Foundation
and it might make no difference legally for the TM whether ZC or the ZF
owns it. But as said before, I am no legal expert and thus I don't know
about all the impacts and thus I am worried. So also because of this it
would feel better for me if the TM would be owned by the ZF as there are
just more checks&balances between their members than there will be with
a single player. And hopefully I would at least trust one of them ;-)

But maybe somebody can answer me some questions about it anyway:

1. What does the license mean. Does it mean that ZF will also have the
   right to decide who is allowed what to do with the TM, and even
   restrict ZC?

2. If ZC might get evil (I don't assume that, btw :-): What might happen
   with sites like zopelabs or any other site/institution having "Zope"
   in it's name. Can they tell them to remove that name?

3. What will happen in this worst case if ZC (or more exactly evil ZC)
   will suddenly start doing a Java CMS under the name "Zope"? Can the
   ZF prevent this?

So basically it's not quite clear to me if the license just means that
ZF is allowed to use the name or if they also can really protect it.
There might always be the possibility to rename the whole project but
why should I advocate Zope now if this investment might be lost someday?

So because of this discussion I am a bit worried. It might be called
"irrational fears" but I might not be the only one and as many in the
community are not fluent in legal things this stuff should be thought
about very carefully in order to keep the environment intact as this is
what Zope makes alive.
(OTOH the community seems not really taking part in that discussion so
maybe it's just me who is a bit worried ;-)

Finally I would like to ask all arguing parties, like ZF and ZEA (and
after reading their blog maybe also Nuxeo) to get together and get
things get sorted out between them. I hope there's a will to do it.
Otherwise the often repeated phrase "we are all in one boat" etc. sounds
a bit strange.. The climate could at least be better..



PS: Sorry for this long post ;-)

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