From my experience, Java development has been a lot faster when
applications have middle to high level complexity. Since Java is inherently object-oriented, reusability is much easier to achieve then when using Zope. Also, Java has mature development and debugging environments and well organized API's. Zope is seriously lacking in this regard.

Zope is good for building simple interfaces but any application that does data processing and requires session management should be left for Java. The closest comparison to Zope that I can think of is PHP.


Again, this is just my opinion based on my own experiences.

- Asad


On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Jonathan Cyr wrote:

I always found the bytecode aspect of Java annoying... having to compile without the advantages in speed of a compiled language.

Interesting, though, I host a WebSphere 6.0 app in Java... The Websphere install is littered with python files, for install/setup purposes... hmm

two cents,

-Jon

David Johnson wrote:
Andreas and others, Thanks for your response. I think my confusion lies in the idea that not
everyone uses Java (though they may talk about it). I do not see everyone
using Java.  In fact I see very few large or successful companies using it.
Even Sun and IBM develop their core components in C/C++.  GNU, Linux, MySQL
... all C/C++.  Ditto Oracle.  In my market, we've been able to easily
outpace and perform competitors going the J2EE route, and for a lot less
money.

In regards to web development, the list of technologies being implemented is overwhelming. It took extensive research to find and settle down to Zope. In my research, I found it took 57 complex files to develop a simple and
ugly J2EE application to display a list of cars from a database (various
Ant, xml, jar, war and other files). In Zope this can be done in 2 objects,
and it integrates nicely with apps like Dreamweaver, so it looks and feels
nice.

We often find the need to integrate with other products and when we do,
either the product's manufacturer a) is interested in market share, or b)
they avoid change. For companies who are into market share they often use a greatest common
denominator technology such as C, Perl, or HTTP.  Java does not play nicely
here.

Companies who avoid change usually do so because they produce large-scale or
small market systems, and change is too expensive and hard.  In this case
Java, again, does not play nicely.

In Java it seems that not only do you have to figure how to interface with
others, you have to figure out how to do it in Java as well (which is not
trivial).  Zope and Python seem better at translating thoughts into code,
and doing so with the right balance of object orientation, and scalability.

Zope provides a solid framework for development and scalability, while
providing mechanisms to include and deploy very custom and specific features
in a standardized way.



 -----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Jung [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 4:03 PM
To: David Johnson; zope@zope.org
Subject: Re: [Zope] Java vs Zope



--On 1. Januar 2006 14:04:16 -0600 David Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Good afternoon.  I am new to Zope and I am excited about its
possibilities. We are an ASP and plan to use Zope to improve our
development process. I see that many people use J2EE based environments.
Does anyone
understand why?  Why would anyone use Java?


Because everyone uses Java! When you work in an environment were Java is already used then you usually use Java instead of Python. And there are environments where Python is possibly the better solution. You just need to compare the efforts to integrate an existing environment with your solution...then you choose your tools.

-aj

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Jonathan Cyr
http://www.cyr.info
http://www.weddingweblog.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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