Now this has been a good lively discussion!
It sounds like you know your sheep. Training and restraining of them certainly
makes for interesting projects and discussions. However, I do believe that
concerns over the virulent strain of E.coli and other fecal contaminants should
not be underestimated.
As I mentioned before, we conducted the sheep/orchard experiment several years
ago - before the fatal E.coli incidents. Today, with the virulent strain E.
Coli out and about, we would not considered using grazers to manage our under
story. Could it be done safely? Most likely, it could. However, peoples'
consumption of our product is greatly influenced by perceptions. Intentionally
placing livestock in orchards in light of this virulent E.coli strain - well,
perceptions could go the wrong way.
That is not to say that our orchards are sterile environments, and that E.Coli
is the only food borne pathogen out there. When I see bird droppings on fruit,
Salmonella comes to mind. But, it just makes sense not to deliver more raw
manure to the scene of fruit production.
As far as how the sheep and trefoil (poor stand of trefoil) affected the
orchard's fertility, I didn't see any appreciable differences between
treatments (Linda did analyze the soil and mineral status of plants, so you
could ask her about those results). Yes, the orchard grass was a rank grower
and likely consumed a fair amount of nitrogen itself. Personally, I doubt that
sheep could effect the long term fertility of the orchard unless they were
supplementally fed. They can put nitrogen in a more available form, but they
cannot bring more nitrogen or other minerals to the orchard unless they also
feed on food sources outside the orchard - right?
We did protein analysis on the main plant components of the orchard floor.
Surprisingly, we had some very high protein feed. Things like plantain and
dandelions, and even the orchard grass, surprised us as good protein sources
for the sheep.
We saw no compaction problems with the sheep, but we do have a rocky soil with
good plant cover. We also kept the animals out of the orchard if it the soil
was saturated with water.
Those are just a few more comments and an effort to answer some of your
questions.
Bill Howell
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Apple-Crop
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 12:09 PM
Subject: Apple-Crop: Orchard floor and fertility management
Hello Bill,
Thanks for the direction to Linda and your comments.
Regarding turf species:
Orchard grass, though a great forage producer, and probably excellent habitat
for predatory insect species, is pretty rank for an underfoot turf in a U-pick
orchard. I'd like to find something more "dwarfing," hence the hope of finding
an endophyte-free ryegrass. Do we have any New Zealanders or Oregon growers
(where grass seed is produced) on the list who are familiar with forage grasses
there, esp. the ryegrasses?
Regarding orchard floor grazing management:
Wow! The sheep in your experiment survived exposure to cherries - prunus! All
the years I raised sheep commercially, prunus species - ornamental and fruiting
- were among those species I did not plant on our farm for fear of poisoning
the sheep.
Very briefly, in response to your comments about negative impacts on the
orchard:
When sheep have been trained to electric fence from their first day out of
the lambing jugs (4-5 days through 10 days old) they are very effectively
controlled for the rest of their lives with electric fencing. (I am not talking
about just the 2 strand typical to fencing of beef cattle. ) An orchardist
can't push a mature, untrained flock through an orchard and expect no damage.
It takes time to develop a well mannered flock which understands the concept of
symbiosis and "sustainability;" sheep are smarter than reputed. Since this is
not a sheep list, contact me off list if any want to discuss the sheep in
relation to orchards further. I want to try orchard grazing.
Regarding fertility management in the orchard:
Bill, with your comments, we morph to a fertility management discussion,
which would be nice to have more input about from other listers. I will discuss
these with Linda if I find her, but perhaps you know:
Did the experiment include any soil sampling before and after the sheep +
orchardgrass/trefoil to assess the nutritional contribution to the orchard and
soil compaction? Compared to other animal manures, sheep manure has a very high
level of potassium & phosporous in relation to its nitrogen, which should be
appropriate to tree fruit. And, I'm wondering if the amount of nitrogen that
trefoil produces would be advised with tree fruit? What was the response of the
cherry orchard to it? Did the trefoil's deep rooting manner counteract any
existing compaction problems in the subsoil that come with orchard management
via mechanization?
Thanks much!
D. Del Boca
N.W. Washington State
On Monday, June 25, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Bill Howell wrote:
Several years ago we worked with Linda Hardesty of WSU's Department of
Natural Resource Sciences on a LISA grant to study the potential of using
sheep to control under story growth in a mature cherry orchard. The pasture
treatments were - 1. what existed naturally, 2. a planted mixture of orchard
grass and Bird's foot trefoil. Grazed and non-grazed plots were set up for
each treatment. You should contact Linda ([EMAIL PROTECTED] ) for more
advice on forage for sheep in an orchard setting for Western Washington.
A larger part of the experiment for us was convincing sheep not to eat
cherry foliage. Those efforts included barriers (movable pens, fencing,
head elevation restrictors for the sheep) and aversion training (similar to
what some alcoholics might endure to wean themselves from the bottle). We
only had problems with debarking when the animals were allowed to stay in
the orchard for extended periods of time. It was best only to allow them in
the orchard for short feeding cycles. Bedding down was best allowed in a
nearby pen.
All in all, it was a very interesting study. However, in the end I found
the effort more than the wool and meat were worth. I valued my trees as
significantly more important than the small livestock operation. Someone
else might figure out a better way. Linda tells me she knows of a few
growers who allow sheepherders to sweep their flocks through large orchards
in the fall to clean up weeds, leaves and fruit drops.
Bill Howell
Yakima Valley, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stina Booth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Apple-Crop" <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1970 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed
I tried sheep under my full sized pear trees, and ended up having to
put fences around each tree as the sheep were climbing up in the tree
to eat the young fruit and the leaves. I pulled the sheep before they
could girdle the bark. I got mixed results as far as mowing, and as I
am an orchardist, not a livestockist, the sheep were small when they
went to slaughter. Maybe others have had better results, but I found
it cheaper and easier to buy lamb from my neighbor, and continue to use
my mower in the orchard. Best of luck.
Stina Booth
Booth Canyon Orchard
Twisp, Washington
On Friday, June 22, 2007, at 08:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Listers:
Can anyone refer me to a turf specialist in USDA Extension so that I
can find these answers?
There was a USDA SARE project completed a number of years ago which
demonstrated the potential to take income from two farm enterprises:
Trellised tree fruit grown over a grass orchard floor grazed by Sheep.
Sounds impossible, I know, but it was successful as well as organic,
and it reduced floor maintenance considerably.
What I would like to know is what was/were the grass(es) used. Here
is why. Sheep are vulnerable to endophyte toxicity which is common in
some grass species, therefore the species/varieties of grasses must be
endophyte free. I suspect the answer will be one or more of the rye
grasses which I understand are used for grazing in New Zealand. It
needs also to be hardy in Zone 6-7.
I would also hope that any such endophyte free grass(es) be something
more manageable than the heavy producing forage varieties used for
green chop and hay production so that it is possible to use power
mowers if necessary, esp. as the harvest season approaches after the
sheep have been pulled off.
Thanks you kindly!
D. Del Boca
N.W. Washington State
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard
<http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon
Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not
represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no
responsibility for the content.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard
<http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon
Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for
the content.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard
<http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon
Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for
the content.
