Yeah, it's easy to see the extremes and wonder how far in the continuum does rationality extend. I've met several with Dr. David Acheson, FDA's new Assistant Commissioner for Food Protection (encompasses food safety and bioterrorism). For the past six months I've been impressed that this guy is both a very intelligent medical professional and a practical realist. This is important because his vision will be the foundation of FDA's food safety initiatives (yes, that's a hint that more are coming and they will target part of the responsibility for safe foods on food producers....commensurate with their associated risk).
The good news for agriculture is that this guy IS a realist; i.e., there is no risk-free environment, farm crops are produced in the environment with ever-present pathogens - some potentially harmful but many not, and despite your best efforts there's a reason why it's called "wild" life. He's not the universe of FDA field investigators but he's clearly more influential to the final outcome. And in that context feel better that he's the one who will make important final judgments of what you may need to do in the future, not someone who has difficulty seeing outside of his or her intellectual blinders. You raise too, a good discussion question of the difference between livestock such as sheep, and other wildlife that are ever-present. The difference centers on E.coli 0157:H7, an incredibly virulent pathogen that is very toxic to non-ruminant organisms. Livestock, including sheep, are ruminants (basically meaning they have two stomachs in which food is digested). Ruminants easily tolerate and pass E.coli 0157:H7 through their digestive tracts and into their feces. Digestion does not kill the E.coli bacteria (nor does washing produce that may be contaminated by it). E.coli 0157:H7 is usually very toxic to non-ruminants (birds, most mammals, humans). So while there's always a risk of some contaminant (e.g. salmonella) the bells and whistles really go off when E.coli comes into the picture because of its high toxicity to humans. The food safety objective is to reduce the reservoir of E.coli bacteria in fresh produce fields or orchards and thereby reduce the opportunity for it to contact the surface of fresh fruits and vegetables. Once the bacteria is on the surface there is little short of heat treatment that will neutralize it. Irradiation can kill it but it also compromises the quality of fresh produce, so it's not a complete answer yet. Ronald L. Gaskill, Director Congressional Relations for International Trade American Farm Bureau Federation(r) 600 Maryland Ave., SW; Suite 1000W Washington, D.C. 20024 Tel: (202) 406-3674 Fax: (202) 406-3604 Cell: (202) 213-0179 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daryl Hunter Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:12 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep Sheep and other livestock? What about wildlife? It isn't unusual to find deer droppings in orchards in my part of the country, and wild birds standing on apples in the trees as they peck at them (and leaving their droppings as well), and squirrels, and rabbits, and mice .......lots of wildlife. So, the risk of contamination is always there to some extent. I would assume that one solution to reducing risk is to only harvest apples in the trees, not drops, and to wash the fruit properly before selling. How far do we go with this concern ......... do we have the pickers wear latex gloves? I saw a comedy show recently where the chef sprayed the salad greens with hand sanitizing lotion. Maybe that is the answer. Daryl Hunter Keswick Ridge New Brunswick Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Apple-Crop" <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep If you run livestock in your orchard and your orchard is a U-Pick orchard, just don't let your liability insurance company know you have livestock among your trees. Ours requires the orchard be fenced in to keep livestock out! Dennis Norton Royal Oak Farm Orchard http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com http://www.revivalhymn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smith, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Apple-Crop" <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:34 PM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep I'm sorry, I stand corrected. It isn't against the law to run livestock in an orchard. I guess you can choose to run livestock in your orchard, just not while fruit is present? Read the letter from Ronald Gaskill carefully. Are you certain that frozen domestic livestock waste, thawing in the spring will never be an actual or perceived issue re: E. coli? What happened to spinach sales after that incidence? I stand by my opinion (opinion!) that production of livestock inside the orchard environment would not be considered a good practice by most consumers. Timothy J. Smith WSU Extension, Chelan, Douglas & Okanogan Counties -----Original Message----- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Arthur Harvey Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:44 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep This is not correct. The example given of animals in orchards during the fall, does not violate organic rules. Many, if not most, organic farmers in Maine apply manure in the fall in order to avoid the cumbersome composting rules. I know, because I inspect those farms for a certifier. --- "Smith, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello apple-croppers, > > There is specific language in the organic rules, and many > import/export agreements forbidding the use of uncomposted animal poo as a fertilizer. > I don't believe the direct deposit of the animal byproducts would be > considered as "o.k." You may not wish to join in with the system that > sets these conditions, but if you direct market, it would be best if > you didn't let your customers see the sheep in the orchard. It just doesn't > look very clean, if you catch my drift. > > Unless you plan to utilize diapers on the various animals that may > graze under/in your trees, it seems that the market would at least be > nervous about possible E. coli issues. > > I don't believe orchards and livestock have ever really been really > compatible, and may be even less so now. It sounds like such a good > idea in the books, but chickens and goats (sheep, hamsters, cattle, > warthogs, etc.) never really add much to the otherwise wholesome image > of low-impact fruit production. > > > Timothy J. Smith > WSU Extension, > Chelan, Douglas & Okanogan Counties > > -----Original Message----- > From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Howell > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:10 AM > To: Apple-Crop > Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep > > Several years ago we worked with Linda Hardesty of WSU's Department of > Natural Resource Sciences on a LISA grant to study the potential of > using sheep to control under story growth in a mature cherry orchard. > The pasture treatments were - 1. what existed naturally, 2. a planted > mixture of orchard grass and Bird's foot trefoil. Grazed and > non-grazed plots were set up for each treatment. You should contact > Linda ([EMAIL PROTECTED] ) for more advice on forage for sheep in > an orchard setting for Western Washington. > > A larger part of the experiment for us was convincing sheep not to eat > cherry foliage. Those efforts included barriers (movable pens, > fencing, head elevation restrictors for the sheep) and aversion > training (similar to what some alcoholics might endure to wean > themselves from the bottle). We only had problems with debarking when > the animals were allowed to stay in the orchard for extended periods > of time. It was best only to allow them in the orchard for short feeding cycles. > Bedding down was best allowed in a nearby pen. > > All in all, it was a very interesting study. However, in the end I > found the effort more than the wool and meat were worth. I valued my > trees as significantly more important than the small livestock > operation. Someone else might figure out a better way. Linda tells me > she knows of a few growers who allow sheepherders to sweep their > flocks through large orchards in the fall to clean up weeds, leaves > and fruit drops. > > Bill Howell > Yakima Valley, WA > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stina Booth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Apple-Crop" <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1970 3:54 AM > Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed > > > > I tried sheep under my full sized pear trees, and ended up having to > > put fences around each tree as the sheep were climbing up in the > > tree to eat the young fruit and the leaves. I pulled the sheep > > before they could girdle the bark. I got mixed results as far as > > mowing, and as I am an orchardist, not a livestockist, the sheep > > were small when they went to slaughter. Maybe others have had > > better results, but I found it cheaper and easier to buy lamb from > > my neighbor, and continue to > use > > my mower in the orchard. Best of luck. > > > > Stina Booth > > Booth Canyon Orchard > > Twisp, Washington > > On Friday, June 22, 2007, at 08:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Hello Listers: > > > > > > Can anyone refer me to a turf specialist in USDA Extension so that > > > I can find these answers? > > > > > > There was a USDA SARE project completed a number of years ago > > > which demonstrated the potential to take income from two farm enterprises: > > > Trellised tree fruit grown over a grass orchard floor grazed by > Sheep. > > > Sounds impossible, I know, but it was successful as well as > organic, > > > and it reduced floor maintenance considerably. > > > > > > What I would like to know is what was/were the grass(es) used. > > > Here is why. Sheep are vulnerable to endophyte toxicity which is > > > common > in > > > some grass species, therefore the species/varieties of grasses > > > must > be > > > endophyte free. I suspect the answer will be one or more of the > > > rye grasses which I understand are used for grazing in New > > > Zealand. It needs also to be hardy in Zone 6-7. > > > > > > I would also hope that any such endophyte free grass(es) be > something > > > more manageable than the heavy producing forage varieties used for > > > green chop and hay production so that it is possible to use power > > > mowers if necessary, esp. as the harvest season approaches after > > > the sheep have been pulled off. > > > > > > Thanks you kindly! > > > D. Del Boca > > > N.W. Washington State > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard > > > <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon > > > Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. > > > > > > Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not > > > represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no > > > responsibility for the content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > -- > - > > > > > > The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard > > <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon > > Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. > > > > Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not > represent > > "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility > for > > the content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > --- > > > The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard > <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon > Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. > > Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not > represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no > responsibility for the content. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard > <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon > Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. > > Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not > represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no > responsibility for the content. > > > > > > On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
