<snip>They should never be the exact same audio object with different [isrc] codes.</snip> I'm just not sure this happens in practice. According to our production staff ISRC codes are not as reliable as intended Don't think i was too clear on the description of the live stuff What we wanna do is provide set lists eg glastonbury The band may play some songs off singles, some off albums and maybe a cover or two These "songs" can't be mapped to "tracks" on releases cos they're not the same audio object. So we need to model a concept of song as an abstract entity that may have multiple renditions as tracks At the mo no music data providers model the song; only tracks This is one of the changes we're considering asking brainz for Any more suggestions?
________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard P Edwards Sent: 26 January 2007 15:30 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Music, (meta)data, musicbrainz and the BBC Hi Michael, The label's prefix is always in the ISRC code.... this may explain further... http://www.riaa.com/issues/audio/isrc_faq.asp My understanding is that the code is attached to the original and unique recording..... so many recordings of the same song can have different codes... but each is unique in its sound after mastering. They should never be the exact same audio object with different codes. That does make sense to me, as it is the recording that is important in this case, not the lyrical content or title. Obviously this is designed for admin and royalty collection and therefore the code would probably always be considered along with the CD label..... which incorporates the other descriptions one normally requires. It can quickly become very complicated if you want to include Genre of music as a description, as you can see from the changing playlists of radio 1/2 etc. If it is just for live music, then most listeners will be able to discern what they are looking at or listening to from the Venue details along with the Artist name. So I would look toward the following.... Name, (Song Title) Artist, Venue Date Album Composer Genre Comments Obviously there will be other BBC type info that is needed, but these fields should be enough for a complete description, if I follow your idea. ATB RichE On 26 Jan 2007, at 13:21, Michael Smethurst wrote: On the subject of ISRC codes I've spoken to some of the production people about this Apparently they're supposed to uniquely identify the audio object So if a track appears on a single and also appears on an album with EXACTLY the same recording it should have the same isrc code BUT apparently labels often prefix the isrc with something to identify the label so if a release is re-released on a different label the tracks on it often have different ISRC codes even tho they're the same audio object Basically they're not guranteed Anyway, this is what i've been told... i'd be delighted to be told different... [and they're also no good for describing live music] We have come across gracenotes but unfortunately (once again) they don't really model "the platonic ideal of a song" (just tracks) so mike flowers pops wonderwall http://www.gracenote.com/prof/music/album.html/ambdreampop/7fc4bbab6b367 527a59404978be5b833.html has no "song" to tie it back to oasis's wonderwall http://www.gracenote.com/prof/music/album.html/britpop/6ffbeca624a0d776e 294e04ece5219d9.html they just happen to label the track search as song maybe there's more going on under the skin of the site but i doubt it ________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard P Edwards Sent: 26 January 2007 01:27 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Music, (meta)data, musicbrainz and the BBC James, The 128 character description could well be the ISRC code from the original label. If it is, then it contains a lot of those same details, and is unique across all manufactured CD's. I would also be surprised if you haven't come across these guys.... http://www.gracenote.com/prof_home.html They seem to have the Song ID database sown up. RichE On 25 Jan 2007, at 16:55, James Cridland wrote: Michael, Ignoring for a while the question of why the BBC is now looking at putting third-party music information services out of business, and being constructive: The major problem we've found working with any third-party music data is the issue of non-standard descriptions. Take a well-known song, which is in our system as... "The Beatles: Norwegian Wood (This bird has flown)", aka "Beatles, The: Norwegian Wood", for example. Life gets harder with R.E.M.'s "End of the world as we know it (and I feel fine)", since R.E.M. is also known as REM and R. E. M. and... ooh, it's horrid. This needs fixing. Secondly, working with third-party systems is a little difficult for cleared-for-broadcast stuff. Oasis's "Fsucking in the bushes" won't look great on scrolling DLS, however we do it - and automated swear filters don't work cleverly enough. (I've added an extra letter in there for work-safe email). The way we've ended up working with these types of services is to have to pre-moderate everything before importing, which is a nuisance but the only way. Easy for us, given the comparatively small amount of music we play; harder for the Beeb, I'd guess. If it helps (which I doubt it will), if you go to http://nowplaying.virginradio.co.uk/vr.js - do it in Firefox so you can see it on-screen - you'll see the following information within a JavaScript line: Artist name ~ artist ID ~ Track name ~ track ID ~ Live on-air studio ~ Presenter name ~ Presenter image reference ~ short description of show (which makes no sense right now I notice!) ~ Short legacy web action description ~ Webcam true/false flag ~ DJ show link ~ Official artist website ~ tickets available true/false ~ 128 character description ~ some number which probably does something I appreciate this is nothing to do with what you're asking, but I wondered whether it was interesting to the conversation. And I'm always up for a pint. j -- http://james.cridland.net/ http://www.virginradio.co.uk/vip/profile/bigjim/
