At a quick glance I'd say that the median is about 146mm. I'd love to see similar figures for 11c lutes. I once heard an eminent maker say that they tended to be more widely spaced than the first 11 courses of a 13 course lute, and it would be nice to see that confirmed (or not) with hard evidence.
Incidentally, Diana Poulton had small hands, and she always played with her little finger on the bridge. Bill From: Rob MacKillop <robmackil...@gmail.com> To: William Samson <willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; BAROQUE-LUTE <baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2011, 12:44 Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele Thanks, Bill. That's it. To which Malcolm added a few more, including the bizarre c.160mm on the small Berr, the smallest lute but with the largest string band. Thanks to all the advice on different approaches to managing these stretches. I'll give them all a go. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 4 Oct 2011, at 12:02, William Samson <[1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Hi Martyn, > I believe I've found David's stuff on string spacings in the archive: > > [1][2]http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html > > Best regards, > Bill > From: Martyn Hodgson <[3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> > To: BAROQUE-LUTE <[4]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Rob MacKillop > <[5]robmackil...@gmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2011, 10:25 > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele > Dear Rob, > It is a stretch but I do think the low A (ie 13th) is meant: the BL > MS > is very clear and there are no signs of an a on the 6th course being > altered to a 6 (as we sometimes find elsewhere). > I think there are two factors here: > 1. Clearly much depends on how one disposes the hand: to play such > extensions I move the thumb closer to the bridge (ie behind the > plucking position of the fingers) and I find this allows the first > and > 13th to be plucked simultaneously. > 2. The other thing is that I'm not quite sure if a string band of > 153mm > isn't a bit too wide for a 13 course instrument. The JC Hoffmann > (1730) string band is 140mm (both the Museum and Stephen Murphy's > drawings) and my own instrument is 145mm (based on an average > inter-course seperation of 12mm). As pointed out in a FoMRHI paper > several years ago, there is some evidence that inter-course > seperation > reduced with the advent of the additional two bass courses (eg the > earlier 11 course JC Hoffmann of 1716 has an average inter-course > seperation of around 13mm) but I agree that some of the later large > theorboed German lutes exhibit quite large inter-course seperation. > However Weiss seems to have written for the 13th course instrument > with > a single pegbox (with treble and bass riders) as the 1730 Hoffmann as > witnessed by stopping basses below course 8 and not the late 'galant' > type of 13th course lute. Incidentally, Baron (1727) particularly > singles out JC Hoffmann for making instruments which fit the hand: in > DA Smith's translation 'He [JCH] also knows how to place the courses > and strings at the proper distances so that his lutes can be > manipulated very easily'. > Finally, could you remind me of the paper /research source which > analysis the sizes of 13th course bridges and suggests an average of > 153mm? > regards, > Martyn > From: Rob MacKillop <[2][6]robmackil...@gmail.com> > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] L'Infidele > To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" <[3][7]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Tuesday, 4 October, 2011, 9:05 > Enjoying exploring my new 13c, and slowly getting the feel for > right-hand string spacing and thumb placement. I'm determined not to > look at my right hand, just feel my way. So, I've been slowly growing > in confidence...until I read through Weiss' L'Infidele. > It's years since I listened to anyone play this suite, and it was a > great joy to start reading through the Entree: 'Hey, I can do this!'. > I > read the Courante slowly, but thinking it a possibility I will one > day > be able to play it up tempo. The Sarabande, like all Weiss > Sarabandes, > is sublimely beautiful. The minuet lies under the fingers. So, I was > beginning to think this is a suite I can get my teeth into. Then I > hit > the Musette... > Bar 4 demands the thumb on the 13th course, the index on the 5th and > (presumably) the ring finger on the 1st. The string band on my lute > is > 153mm, and I have large hands. I should be able to do this, but is is > very hard. I can manage it, but, clearly, at a stretch. 153mm does > not > seem excessive, and is pretty much bang in the middle of all > surviving > 13c bridges, in other words an average size. Will practise of this > passage make my stretch longer? > Anyone else have problems with this passage? I seem (in desperation, > maybe) to recall someone arguing that originally the low A was up an > octave at the 6th course, and the 13th course was written in later. > Any > info on that? > Rob MacKillop > www.robmackillop.net > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1][4][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- > References > 1. [5][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. [10]http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html > 2. mailto:[11]robmackil...@gmail.com > 3. mailto:[12]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 4. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 5. [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 2. http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html 3. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 4. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 6. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 7. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html 11. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 12. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
