A point I like to make to new trainees trying to solve structures: Model phases from a good model are pretty good, but from a practical viewpoint, if your initial model for molecular replacement is that good, the resulting structure will probably not tell you much you didn't already know (with exceptions of course). If you only have an existing structure for, say, half of what's in your asymmetric unit, SAD phases will be less biased than model phases from molecular replacement, even though both may be noisy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phoebe A. Rice Dept. of Biochem & Mol. Biol. and Committee on Microbiology https://voices.uchicago.edu/phoebericelab/ On 12/5/18, 9:14 PM, "CCP4 bulletin board on behalf of James Holton" <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK on behalf of 0000270165b9f4cf-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk> wrote: It is true that MAD phasing can give you hyper-accurate phases. This is because you are measuring the heavy atom signal in both directions on the Harker diagram, allowing the phase to be solved analytically. The phasing signal is noisy, of course, but you can fix that either with a bigger heavy atom (more signal) or by doing a lot of averaging (less noise). You will probably need more than one crystal. SAD, on the other hand, can never give you very good phases because the phase probability distributions are all bimodal. The technology that makes SAD practical is solvent flattening, but as soon as you start doing things like solvent flattening you are already imposing a model, and every model comes with some amount of bias. How important that bias is depends on the question you are trying to answer. MIR, like MAD, can get arbitrarily accurate phases, but this and every other technique requires a high degree of isomorphism. In practice, essentially all experimental phasing attempts are really trying to get you just over that ever-elusive tipping point of phase quality where solvent flattening and model building can take you the rest of the way. So, in the end what you have are model phases, just like if you had done MR. It's sad really how fleeting the involvement of experimental phases are in essentially all MAD/SAD structure determinations. Pun intended. That said, model phases are not so bad. In fact, in all my experiments with fake data the model-phased 2mFo-DFc map always has the best correlation to the "true" map. If you substitute the "true" phases and use the 2mFo-DFc coefficients you actually make things worse. Counter-intuitive, but true. -James Holton MAD Scientist On 12/5/2018 12:07 AM, 香川 亘 wrote: > Dear all, > > It is my understanding that experimental phasing (e.g. Se-SAD), in principle, yields better electron density maps than molecular replacement for protein regions with weak electron densities (partially disordered or flexible). I would appreciate if someone could provide comments on whether my understanding is correct or not. If there any good examples or literatures on this issue I would be grateful to know about it. > > I thank you in advance. > > Wataru Kagawa > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1
