LOL. I don't know about evil, but certainly a PITA when it comes to compensation... Though the 2.5 hours lunch I took today sure was fun ;-)
J. John Wilker "Codito, ergo sum" Web Applications Consultant, and Writer Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer President/Founder, Inland Empire CFUG. www.red-omega.com I asked "Do you know DOS?" The reply was: "No, but I met Tom and Drew a few minutes ago." -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Intellectual property (was RE: programmer vs. developer) IMHO salary = Evil Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------- Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com --------------------------------------------------------- Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder & Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:38 PM Subject: RE: Intellectual property (was RE: programmer vs. developer) > Here in Washington (the state!) there has been an emphasis lately on > laws that are on the books. If you are salaried then you can't have > things like > comp time, 40 hour work weeks, etc. Your only requirement is that you meet > the objectives set forth by your supervisor. Caused a lot of joking around > here on Mondays about lunch time ... "you done with your objectives? > yep .. ok, done for the week!". Of course, how close they follow > these in all work places I don't know. I'm assuming it was a push by > the unions, since part of the laws define who should be salaried and > who should be hourly, and > progralopers are borderline according to that definition. > > Now if I only I had documented all thos off the clock hours when I > worked at > Albertsons ... > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jillian Carroll [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 10:52 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Intellectual property (was RE: programmer vs. developer) > > > The interesting question that your comment raises in my mind: > > If you are never truly 'off', you just aren't at your desk... > > If 'they' ever fought you on intellectual property, couldn't you > retort with > a rather hefty claim for overtime owed? > > heheh :) > > -- > Jillian > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 11:08 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Intellectual property (was RE: programmer vs. developer) > > > "little shops" don't really have an intellectual property agreement, > but none the less... their term of "everything you develop for us" is > rather broad in scope... some assume that it also covers off-hour > times, some assume that as a salaried employee, you're never 'off', > you're just not at your desk (e.g. You've been given permission to > physically leave the building). > > ~Todd > > > On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Matt Liotta wrote: > > > You should have signed an intellectual property agreement when you > > were hired. It details you rights in this regard. As with all legal > > matters, you are advised to seek counsel from a professional. > > > > Matt Liotta > > President & CEO > > Montara Software, Inc. > > http://www.montarasoftware.com/ > > V: 415-577-8070 > > F: 415-341-8906 > > P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:02 AM > > > To: CF-Talk > > > Subject: Intellectual property (was RE: programmer vs. developer) > > > > > > <quote> > > > "Finally, I think this expectation that most of us have about > > > being a programmer 24/7 demonstrates the relative immaturity of > > > our field; > > after > > > all, it really should be just like any other job, instead of being > > > a > > hobby > > > that you happen to get paid for. Sure, it's nice to enjoy your > > > work, > > but > > > work is just one part of the life of a well-rounded person." > > > > > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software > > > </quote> > > > > > > Dave, > > > > > > Curious question for you. To those of us that enjoy programming > > > as a hobby and actually do research on our own outside of work > > > time. How > > does > > > intellectual property fit into this. The reason why I bring this > > > up > > is > > > because well, due to the immaturity of most comapnies wanting > > > their developers to work 24/7, basically anything I concieve of is > > > by right > > of > > > employment contract, theirs. In their eyes, a salaried employee > > > is something akin to a ... well... a wageslave. > > > > > > Take the little company I work for. They'd love it if I worked > > > for > > them > > > 24/7. The partners would get a kick out of it, especially if they > > could > > > purchase another SUV within a few months. However, I have been > > hesitant > > > to hand over anything, but at times, I've had no choice due to the > > lack of > > > time they give me for a particular project. My methodology for > > example. > > > The project manager basically scoped out what he felt my co-worker > > > and > > I > > > were developing, asked me to read this over and ... published it > > > on > > the > > > intranet. At the same time, I'm thinking to myself, why did I > > > just do that? What did I gain from it? I got no recognition for > > > it, I got nothing. So, if I were to ever break away from my > > > current job, I'd be pretty screwed if they found out that I'm > > > still using 'my' so called methodology for future clients. > > > > > > I'm very concerned about the future and maturity level of the so > > called > > > "internet/development" companies out there. How does figleaf > > > handle creative ideas like this? > > > > > > Case in point, Branden Hall. I'm sure he cranks out > > > actionscripting > > code > > > all day long and posts code left and right and handles what he can > > > to > > help > > > people out. How does Figleaf distinguish between his intellectual > > > property and commercial value? Does Branden run every little > > > script > > of > > > code over to someone at figleaf and ask for permission to release > > > it? > > If > > > Figleaf uses his code that he wrote on his time, does he get > > compensated? > > > recognized? Does Figleaf automatically by default suck in his > > > code > > into > > > their intellectual property library because it was used that one > > > time? > > > > > > Just curious, > > > ~Todd > > > > > > -- ============================================================ > > > Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ | > > > Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion | > > > http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ | > > > http://www.flashCFM.com/ - webRat (Moderator) | > > > http://www.ultrashock.com/ - webRat (Back-end Moderator) | > > > ============================================================ > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
