That is starting to work nicely with REBL for the basic datafy/nav functionality. Thank you!
Once I'd verified that, I tried this: (assoc (d/datafy (java.time.LocalDateTime/now)) :format :iso) hoping that if I nav'd to the new :format key, it would "navigate" to a formatted version but it didn't. Then I realized you hadn't added support for that in your nav implementation (you're assuming folks explicitly use your protocol-based functions on the original objects, I think?). That would be the next logical step: being able to augment a datafied date/time with additional key/value pairs that would be recognized by the implementation of nav. The datafication wouldn't need to add these keys (although, if you wanted an obvious "default" behavior, you could add some) but the navigation would need to recognize them and do the appropriate calculation/conversion. Does that make sense? On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 1:46 PM dimitris <jimpil1...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi again Sean and folks, > > I've had another stub at this, mostly by flattening the model but also by > separating navigation from query/comparing/formatting etc. Most datafied > representations are now navigable on their keys (returning either a Java > object or some base value), and some on certain extra keys. > > I believe this version will play much nicer with REBL, and all the wrapper > style fns now live in `jedi-time.datafied` namespace and backed-by > `jedi-time.protocols`. In other words, navigation is now purely for > traversing the graph - everything else has its own protocol. > > Unfortunately, now Instant can't really navigate to anything interesting > (it falls back to data navigation via `get`). > > I would be very interested in feedback on the new approach (git-sha: > 8e756ecb71bbfa0b081e00d71a21c47037f1eae4). If anything, it separates > navigation from the other capabilities, and makes sure that there is always > a navigation path to either upgrade (by making assumptions), or downgrade > (by losing information) your datafied representation . > > As always, thanks in advance... > > Dimitris > > > On 09/02/2020 19:35, Sean Corfield wrote: > > Yes, I agree with all of that I think. > > For nested navigation, consider that (get-in data [:year :month) is > equivalent to (get data :month (get data :year)) so you could nav one step > at a time. Calling nav (& then datafy) on the intermediate steps would just > bring you back to the data world at the same point as the inner (top-level) > get in that case. > > nav-in would be a strange operation since it would need to call datafy > after each step to get the arguments needed for the next nav call. REBL > provides nav-> which does this behind the scenes while it is threading data > through the pipeline of nav operations (so there is a precedent). > > Even with an equivalent to nav-in (or nav->) I think that using datafy/nav > on Java Time objects may be an incomplete mapping -- and probably somewhat > hard to work with. When you first posted, I was more focused on the > confusion using non-core datafy/nav would be and interop with REBL -- I > didn't look too deep into the _actual_ navigation you were proposing, > sorry. > > On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 1:19 AM dimitris <jimpil1...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Sean, >> >> I'm back home and trying to understand/internalize this...Unfortunately, >> this kind of (flat & arg-less) navigation is not going to be very useful >> for the majority of java.time (datafied) objects. That is for two >> reasons... First of all the datafied maps I'm returning are nested. This >> means that for example to get to the `YearMonth` object, you would need to >> navigate to the [:year :month] path, and in the absence of `nav-in` this is >> somewhat awkward. Secondly, most of the interesting/useful conversions (in >> the context of date-times), almost always requires some sort of argument >> (e.g. `Instant` to `LocalDateTime`), and so if the last arg to `nav` has to >> be either nil (for missing keys), or match the actual value in the map, >> then there is no room left for arguments. >> >> It is true that I'm probably trying to do too much with `nav`, but now >> that I'm understanding its purpose better, I get the feeling that it's not >> going to be as useful as I originally thought (in the context of this lib). >> Yes, I can pull all the clever stuff into distinct functions, but >> ultimately for `nav` to be useful I would have to either: >> >> 1. Change the datafied representation to something flat, OR >> >> 2. accept that navigating to pure data (via `get-in`) will be done with >> real paths (e.g. `[:year :month]`), whereas navigating to objects (via >> `nav`) will be done with bogus keys (e.g. `:month-of-year`). >> >> As things stand (with my current nested representation), only LocalDate, >> LocalDateTime, OffsetDateTime & ZonedDateTime can have useful navigations: >> >> - LocalDate => :week-day , :year-month >> >> - LocalDateTime => :local-date, :local-time >> >> - OffsetDateTime => :local-datetime, :instant >> >> - ZonedDateTime => :offset-datetime, :local-datetime, :instant >> >> That is pretty much it in terms of `nav`... >> >> Does that make (more) sense? >> >> >> Many thanks in advance... >> >> Dimitris >> >> ps: Sean I can be on slack but with my work email >> >> >> On 04/02/2020 05:18, Sean Corfield wrote: >> >> You're misunderstanding me. I'll try again. >> >> I'm not saying you can't navigate to keys that don't exist in the data -- >> but since there would be no corresponding value, the nav call would be (nav >> coll k nil) essentially. >> >> If (get coll k) produces some value v, then (nav coll k v) will take you >> from the right side (pure data) to the left side (objects) to the object >> that "corresponds" to the equivalent navigation on the right (i.e., within >> the data). >> >> object -> datafy -> pure data >> pure data -> get etc -> new pure data >> pure data -> nav -> new object "corresponding" to new pure data >> >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 3:38 AM Dimitrios Jim Piliouras < >> jimpil1...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> This is what I've done but it contradicts what we said earlier... >>> >>> If I navigate to some existing key and it gives me back a Java object, >>> then it means that the datafied representation had a key pointing to non >>> data! >>> >>> I have read your blog post multiple times ;), but I think the situation >>> you're describing with the foreign keys is rather unique... >>> >>> The datafied datetime cannot possibly include all its possible formats, >>> nor all the possible alternatives - that would be extremely wasteful and >>> meaningless the way I see it. >>> >>> >>> Let's take an Instant as an example...it datafies to map of two keys >>> (:epoch, :second). Does it make sense to add a :format-iso key in there >>> pointing to a String? Is there any point navigating to that key? Is there >>> any point navigating to :epoch or :second? The answer is no, right? Is >>> there a point in navigating to :zoned-datetime given a zone id? I would >>> think yes... >>> >>> On Mon, 3 Feb 2020, 04:47 Sean Corfield, <s...@corfield.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Think of it as a square: >>>> >>>> You start with an object of some sort (left side) -> datafy -> turns it >>>> into pure Clojure data (including metadata). (right side) >>>> >>>> Given pure Clojure data, you can navigate through it with get etc and >>>> you stay in the right side (pure data). >>>> >>>> Given that pure Clojure data, you can navigate back to the left hand >>>> wide with nav, mimicking how get etc work. >>>> >>>> So datafy is L -> R, get is R -> R, nav is R -> L on a "diagonal" that >>>> takes you back to the object world on the left, corresponding to the place >>>> on the right that you'd get to via get etc. >>>> >>>> See if this blog post helps >>>> https://corfield.org/blog/2018/12/03/datafy-nav/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 1:22 AM Dimitrios Jim Piliouras < >>>> jimpil1...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Sean, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Admittedly, I’ve never used REBL, and I did struggle with the shape >>>>> and name of the `nav` arguments... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In particular I’m struggling to understand why would anyone use `nav` >>>>> to navigate to a key that already exists in the map...Can’t we just use >>>>> `get` or `get-in`? >>>>> >>>>> You used the :format as an example, which works with nil, :iso, or a >>>>> String pattern as the last arg to nav. But again, :format is NOT in the >>>>> datafied representation. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In essence, I’ve tried to use `nav` to navigate to things that can be >>>>> expensive and don’t necessarily belong in the actual datafied >>>>> representation. >>>>> >>>>> If the second argument to `nav`, is expected to be a key already >>>>> present in the map, then I really don’t understand what is the point of >>>>> `nav`. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> kind regards, >>>>> >>>>> Dimitris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From: *Sean Corfield <s...@corfield.org> >>>>> *Sent: *02 February 2020 07:36 >>>>> *To: *Clojure Mailing List <clojure@googlegroups.com> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: ANN: jedi-time 0.1.4 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This is very cool but I would strongly recommend you try using this >>>>> with REBL so you can figure out how to make the `nav` part work in a more >>>>> natural way. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> nav is intended to work with a key and value (from the datafied >>>>> structure), but your nav expects special values so it doesn't work with >>>>> REBL. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You can put (java.time.Instant/now) into REBL and your datafication >>>>> produces a great data representation, but you can't navigate into it using >>>>> the keys (and values) of the data structure itself. You can put :format >>>>> into the nav-> bar and it defaults to a format you can get a string back, >>>>> but none of the other nav calls will work. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You might consider combining the :format key with the actual format, >>>>> e.g., :format-iso, :format-yy-MM-dd and if the key is something your don't >>>>> recognize, just let it behave like regular data navigation. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think you're trying to do too much with nav, beyond "navigation". I >>>>> think you could split some of the "clever" navigation out into a transform >>>>> function that takes a datafied time and produces a new datafied time, and >>>>> then let nav do the "conversion" back to Java objects. You've complected >>>>> the transforms and the conversion right now. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you're on Slack, I'm happy to DM about this in more detail (when >>>>> you're back from traveling). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 6:02 AM dimitris <jimpil1...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi folks, >>>>> >>>>> The first public release of `jedi-time` should be hitting clojars any >>>>> minute now. I am traveling next week so may be slow to reply to >>>>> feedback/bugs/PRs... >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/jimpil/jedi-time >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, >>>>> >>>>> Dimitris >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient >>>>> with your first post. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clojure/8dbb9c5b-0ab0-fc76-6dc6-5e75b93d452a%40gmail.com >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN >>>>> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ >>>>> World Singles Networks, LLC. -- https://worldsinglesnetworks.com/ >>>>> >>>>> "Perfection is the enemy of the good." >>>>> -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - 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please be patient >>>>> with your first post. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clojure/5e3694b9.1c69fb81.8a875.d5ea%40mx.google.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clojure/5e3694b9.1c69fb81.8a875.d5ea%40mx.google.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN >>>> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ >>>> World Singles Networks, LLC. -- https://worldsinglesnetworks.com/ >>>> >>>> "Perfection is the enemy of the good." >>>> -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - 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please be patient with >>> your first post. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clojure/CAE3KzwJ9QuTB7gOMdyja5LyczStJzgsEv9c%3D3_cM%2BoY2_ppPRA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clojure/CAE3KzwJ9QuTB7gOMdyja5LyczStJzgsEv9c%3D3_cM%2BoY2_ppPRA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN >> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ >> World Singles Networks, LLC. -- https://worldsinglesnetworks.com/ >> >> "Perfection is the enemy of the good." >> -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Clojure" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clojure/CAD4thx_1%2BwQi6_-BkiPLM%3DUvAm84wWF3Ob_%2B%3DZ2nZx-9uHj2fQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clojure/CAD4thx_1%2BwQi6_-BkiPLM%3DUvAm84wWF3Ob_%2B%3DZ2nZx-9uHj2fQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Clojure" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clojure/470f811f-21cb-74f4-bd85-4a3fb5792fef%40gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clojure/470f811f-21cb-74f4-bd85-4a3fb5792fef%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > World Singles Networks, LLC. -- https://worldsinglesnetworks.com/ > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - 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