On Mar 16, 7:52 pm, Jeffrey Straszheim <straszheimjeff...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'd love to see something built around very-high scalability, using NIO and
> thread pools and such.
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Sean <francoisdev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure if some of the design inputs make sense, specifically
> > Spring and Hibernate.
>
> > Point 1 - I've found the strength of Spring to be making up for the
> > weaknesses of Java. Once you have first class functions, macros, and
> > multi-methods (to name a few), Spring doesn't bring much to the table
> > any more. Add in a few Unix utilities like cron and others, you
> > remove the rest of the features.
>
> > Point 2 - As for Hibernate, ORM doesn't make much sense with a
> > functional language either. The SQL library in clojure-contrib lets
> > you load a map, and you can create way more interesting queries with
> > clojure than hibernate. S-expressions are that powerful.
>
> > Point 3 - I'd follow Rails example and use strong defaults, and resort
> > to XML only when necessary.
>
> > Point 4 - Sounds good.
>
> > Point 5 - Have you looked into compojure? It does a really good job
> > of turning s-expressions into HTML.
>
> > Point 5 (the second one) - See compojure again.
>
> > Point 6 & 7 - This is where a lot of work is to be done. I'm not sure
> > how to respond right now. I'll think about it.
>
> > Point 8 - This is why clojure is awesome. I'll leave this as an
> > exercise to the user :)
>
> > Point 9 - Yeah, this would be a great feature.
>
> > That's my thoughts.
>
> > On Mar 16, 7:17 pm, BerlinBrown <berlin.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > After many years (decade) of web development, here are the things that
> > > I want in a framework, mostly based in clojure:
>
> > > What do you think and what you add. This is ambitious and just a
> > > "ideas" of what I would add. What would you want from your ideal
> > > framework?
>
> > > 1. Based on Spring Framework for middleware:
> > > Reason: there are years and years and years of development spent on
> > > spring and there are many things done right. If I were integrating
> > > with any other third party libraries, I would use spring. Spring is
> > > added to my framework.
>
> > > 2. Based on Hibernate for ORM mapping:
> > > Reason: the defacto standard for ORM mapping with Java. And also used
> > > by NHibernate. There is a lot of support for most popular databases.
>
> > > 3. Clojure/Lisp based configuration AND default XML configurations.
> > > This has become the standard way to configure a J2EE web application
> > > including spring and hibernate. But I would like a lisp oriented
> > > configuration.
>
> > > 4. Easy mapping to URLs. I like python's approach for URL mapping
>
> > > 5. Clojure based, framework based server pages AND JSPs. I have
> > > always hated some aspects of JSP and ASPs, etc, etc. They are just
> > > too complicated. I would want to use Clojure code within the
> > > framework oriented server page and other predefined tags.
>
> > > 5. Lift like reusable server pages. Lift has an interesting approach
> > > for resuing the same page. E.g. you have an if-else statement within
> > > the page.
>
> > > If request == GET
> > > ...render this
> > > if request == POST
> > > ...render this.
> > > if URL == 'abc.html'
> > > .. render this.
>
> > > I want to embed this in my framework. You only touch one page, but
> > > you get different outputs depending on the request method or URL, etc,
> > > etc.
>
> > > 6. Use of Clojure syntactic sugar -- TO BE DETERMINED. There is the
> > > ability to use powerful Clojure constructs with this framework but I
> > > haven't figured out how yet.
>
> > > 7. Better integration of CSS, Javascript, HTML. A lot of a web
> > > application still resides with the client side. I have yet to see an
> > > web framework that addresses client development (besides GWT). Maybe
> > > something as simple as server page tags for CSS? Javascript?
>
> > > 8. Additional third party libraries:
>
> > > Lucene, iText, jFreeChart, optional Terracotta integration
> > > ----------------
>
> > > Other optional/additional thoughts.
>
> > > 9. Clear separation between back-end and front-end layers
"Point 1 - I've found the strength of Spring to be making up for the
weaknesses of Java. Once you have first class functions, macros, and
multi-methods (to name a few), Spring doesn't bring much to the table
any more. Add in a few Unix utilities like cron and others, you
remove the rest of the features."
Assuming a person is able to re-engineer what Spring has already done
including the simplistic dependency injection oriented web framework.
For me, I just to hate to ignore all that work has been done as well
as making it easier for integrating 'this' framework with pre-existing
code.
"Point 2 - As for Hibernate, ORM doesn't make much sense with a
functional language either. The SQL library in clojure-contrib lets
you load a map, and you can create way more interesting queries with
clojure than hibernate. S-expressions are that powerful. "
That sql library does come close to hibernate. Hibernate works with
20 or more different, supports different caching mechanisms, works
with pojos, on and on. Once again, Spring and Hibernate are the two
libraries I would use
I was looking at it more from the engineering and integration
standpoint as opposed to just "write it all in clojure because of the
functional programming goodness". If you integrate Spring and
Hibernate, there is functionality and maturity that won't exist with
anything I could create in the time I want to work on his whether you
add most of Clojure's great features or not.
I think that is where people might want to use compojure.
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