There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: 2 Asirkan proverbs:
From: Padraic Brown
1b. Re: 2 Asirkan proverbs:
From: Padraic Brown
2a. Re: Beautiful vowel diagrams using LaTeX
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
Messages
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1a. Re: 2 Asirkan proverbs:
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:23 pm ((PDT))
> From: Scott Villanueva-Hlad <scotth...@telus.net>
>
> Yes, Padraic, a translation exercise and I hadn't planned it either.
A good translation exercise is rarely planned!
> "They say much who speak little" is like the other side of the coin.
Yes. It is a very common thing, especially in the Eastlands of the World, to
reverse
common aphorisms in this way. I think in part this is due to a very strong
current of
understanding, in eastern Christianity, Jesus's ministry as a largely
philosophical one.
This aphorism-reversal idea has become translated to other non- and
para-Christian
philosophies as well.
> Rather than listening to someone natter on for hours and communicating
> nothing,
> you have admirably gone the other direction and stated that people of few
> words
> have the most to say. Oh jeez I need to translate that one as a corollary to
> the
> first. Well done.
And I guess I'll have to translate the unreversed version!
Along similar lines, here is a Loucarian version, though turned a bit on its
head:
qouis lus bon qouen al hecaton accas proll al annossion? nouôt al prollos accas
al agapam.
What is better than a hundred of senseless words? One word of love.
Here equating the wise speakers of few words with a more loving (and therefore
more
doing) personality.
> Here's my next:
>
> Meko or meiba eurili si; sekomocom oko toletu etesoin.
>
> Meko = unless
> Or = locative preposition
> Meiba = mountain
> Euril = stand, eurili perfective aspect
> Si = he or she
> Sekomo = climb, sekomocom - infinitive
> Oko = particle of negation
> Tole = can, be able, toletu perfective aspect
> Etesoin = person, one
>
> Literal: Unless he stands at the mountain a man is unable to climb [it]
>
> Unless a man stands at a mountain he is unable to climb it. The idea behind
> it
> is to worry about things around you right now and not things in the future.
Here again, the story line might well be found in a reversed form:
he that oferstandet thon berge he that was at befornes cwemon
He that stands upon the mountain (is) he that had earlier come to the mountain.
Here
the idea isn't much worrying about things now so much as visualising self as
already
having overcome those things. All the while expressing the same literal concept:
unless you're in the vicinity of the mountain, you can't ascend its lofty
heights!
Padraic
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
> Behalf
> Of Padraic Brown
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:58 PM
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> Subject: Re: 2 Asirkan proverbs:
>
>> From: H. S. Teoh <hst...@quickfur.ath.cx>
>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 05:12:24PM -0600, Scott Villanueva-Hlad wrote:
>>> Het gamgoram ohat euliekicom sośutucia or vamysdi.
>>>
>>> [the cougar must].accusative [must feed].verb [(the one who)
>>> lives].participle [in].preposition [(the) forest].noun
>>>
>>> Translation: He who lives in the forest must feed the cougar.
>>
>> I like this aphorism. Here's a Tatari Faran translation:
>
> Yay! Translation exercise!
>
> Avantimen might say the following:
>
> cutiscet for se hwalfihhsam that that underwith er razen gangat
>
> He cooks for the sea-monsters who goes around in their house.
>
> cutiscen is a 3rd T-class conjugation verb, here in 3s pres; hwalfihhsaz is
> an
> -a stem noun, here in the dat/obl pl; that that is a typcial binary relative
> pronoun; "he that" or "ho that"
> might be a bit more common, but in these sort of binary and gnomic aphorisms,
> the entirely ungendered duplicated form is almost de rigeur (the more so
> because
> it looks like one "that" goes with either half of the saying); razo is
> an -on stem noun, here also in the obl pl.; gangen is a 7th ablaut
> conjugation
> verb.
>
> Such aphorisms are typically lacking little things like personal pronouns.
>
> This particular is well known and means, roughly, "be careful, you're
> nòt at the top of the food chain!"
>
> And then:
>
> spellend meqele that that lytele tellend
>
> They say much who speak little.
>
> Padraic
>
Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: 2 Asirkan proverbs:
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:05 am ((PDT))
> From: Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com>
>
>> "They say much who speak little" is like the other side of the coin.
>
> And I guess I'll have to translate the unreversed version!
Okay: "They that spêhand meqele they spellend lytele." They who talk much say
little.
This one posed something of a challenge simply because of the many gradations of
words for talking:
cuwethen, to say or speak (e.g., say one's piece, make a speech)
leuhen, to speak falsely
mengen, to speak of something, to discuss
spêhhen, to say or speak (i.e., to engage in the act of speaking)
spellen, to tell or declare something; to recite (esp. a list, like the
woemblong / abc)
sprêhhen, speak, be able to talk (i.e., races that are able to communicate via
speaking)
conuersen, talk with, converse
hustlen, engage in double talk, advertise, sell / hawk something (of the street
vendor,
"gichore 'ot 'ound sausage hya'! Fresh off t' pig! So fresh tis still oinkin!"
sort of thing)
rownen, to riddle, speak a rune or logion (this is often done in a high(er)
register)
sayen, to say (almost always restricted to the 'spoken quotation mark' role)
masten, to tell a tall tale, to lie (I think this is more of the
lie-of-exaggeration, rather than
a bald faced falsehood -- you know, a "the dog ate my homework while I was
trying
to help tie my brother's boot, but then the cock crew which scared the cat that
leapt
off the table and scattered all my books and papers and then some of them
drifted into
the hearth and then the dog barfed up the bits and Mum made me clean the mess up
and my sister laughed at me the whole time, oh that's also why I'm late for
school" kind
of thing)
tellen, to reckon, calculate, enumerate, mention in order, recite
illspellen, to relate bad news
bathspellen, to relate good news
farspêhhen, to use a "farspeaker" (a thaumological telephone-like device)
So in the above "they" are simply engaged in the act of speaking ("people
talking
without speaking" sort of thing); and thus actually declare or relate little of
content.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (10)
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________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Beautiful vowel diagrams using LaTeX
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" tsela...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:04 pm ((PDT))
On 31 July 2013 00:46, H. S. Teoh <hst...@quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:
> To go along with the beautiful vowel diagrams, I also found a package
> that lets you do beautiful interlinear glosses:
>
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/expex
>
> Here's a simple example:
>
> % In the preamble
> \usepackage{expex}
> %...
> \begin{document}
> ...
> \ex \begingl
> % The gloss preamble is non-aligned, so suitable for the
> % unmodified orthographic text.
> \glpreamble ehrlunemi kuhtainu.//
>
> % The \gla line is vertically aligned with the \glb and
> % \glc lines, so it's suitable for morpheme-by-morpheme
> % breakdown.
> \gla ehrlu-en-mi kuh-tai-u //
> \glb tongue-1SG.POSS-V ear-2PL.POSS-PAT //
>
> % The free translation line is non-aligned, so suitable
> % for free translation.
> \glft I speak to you. //
> \endgl \xe
> ...
> \end{document}
>
> The output looks something like this (if you'll excuse the crude ASCII
> rendering):
>
> (1) ehrlunemi kuhtainu.
>
> ehrlu-en-mi kuh-tai-u
> tongue-1SG.POSS-V ear-2PL.POSS-PAT
>
> I speak to you.
>
> This is the most comprehensive set of interlinear glossing macros I've
> found so far: there can be any number of \glb and \glc lines, and the
> preamble and free translation lines are optional. The glossed lines are
> nicely auto-wrapped, and automatically vertically aligned. Really nice
> for rendering beautiful interlinears!
>
>
>
Have you looked at the gb4e package? http://www.ctan.org/pkg/gb4e
It does everything expex does, but with LaTeX environments rather than TeX
macros (which I find looks cleaner, and is handled much more gracefully by
LaTeX-aware text editors) and with more semantic mark-up. The package
automatically aligns the glosses as does expex. I personally think it is
easier to handle than expex, especially when it comes to referencing
examples. And it fits much better in a LaTeX or XeLaTeX document than expex
which has really been developed for TeX only.
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (8)
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