There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. OT: How to Build a Planet
From: C. Brickner
1b. Re: OT: How to Build a Planet
From: Roger Mills
1c. Re: How to Build a Planet
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
1d. Re: How to Build a Planet
From: Padraic Brown
2a. Re: Working on my first conlang.
From: Roger Mills
2b. Re: Working on my first conlang.
From: Austin Blanton
2c. Re: Working on my first conlang.
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
3a. Re: Xiis, my first writing system
From: Roger Mills
3b. Re: Xiis, my first writing system
From: Alex Fink
3c. Re: Xiis, my first writing system
From: George Marques de Jesus
4a. How to present a conlang?
From: Ian Spolarich
4b. Re: How to present a conlang?
From: Ben Scerri
4c. Re: How to present a conlang?
From: David Peterson
4d. Re: How to present a conlang?
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
5a. Re: verb-less language, maybe
From: Roger Mills
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. OT: How to Build a Planet
Posted by: "C. Brickner" tepeyach...@embarqmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:53 am ((PDT))
It may be of interest to some on this list that the Science Channel is showing
a series entitled "How to Build a Planet". It aired last night for the first
time, but I'm sure there'll be repeats.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: OT: How to Build a Planet
Posted by: "Roger Mills" romi...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:25 pm ((PDT))
Great! I'll watch for it next Sunday night(?). Last night I was otherwise
occupied with that disastrous Tigers/Sox game.....;-((((
________________________________
From: C. Brickner <tepeyach...@embarqmail.com>
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 2:33 PM
Subject: OT: How to Build a Planet
It may be of interest to some on this list that the Science Channel is showing
a series entitled "How to Build a Planet". It aired last night for the first
time, but I'm sure there'll be repeats.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: How to Build a Planet
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:27 pm ((PDT))
You mean me, right. Thanks for the note.
Pen name:
Mellissa Green
Blog
www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
Twitter
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On Behalf
Of C. Brickner
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 2:33 PM
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: OT: How to Build a Planet
It may be of interest to some on this list that the Science Channel is showing
a series entitled "How to Build a Planet". It aired last night for the first
time, but I'm sure there'll be repeats.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: How to Build a Planet
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:47 pm ((PDT))
I am pretty sure he means everyone, especially since he sent the same message to
at least two different lists! :)
I don't have the Science Channel on my service, otherwise, I'd be interested in
watching it as well.
Padraic
----- Original Message -----
> From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <goldyemo...@gmail.com>
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> Cc:
> Sent: Monday, 14 October 2013, 20:27
> Subject: Re: How to Build a Planet
>
> You mean me, right. Thanks for the note.
>
>
> Pen name:
> Mellissa Green
> Blog
>
> www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
>
> Twitter
> @GreenNovelist
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
> Behalf
> Of C. Brickner
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 2:33 PM
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> Subject: OT: How to Build a Planet
>
> It may be of interest to some on this list that the Science Channel is
> showing a
> series entitled "How to Build a Planet". It aired last night for the
> first time, but I'm sure there'll be repeats.
> Charlie
>
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Working on my first conlang.
Posted by: "Roger Mills" romi...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:37 pm ((PDT))
I'm curious about your cat-people. How were they created-- genetic engineering?
Evolution over time?
How tall are they? my kitties, if they stood on their hind legs, would only be
2-3 ft. tall. OTOH, my Kash people who descend from a panther-like animal,
average around 6-7 feet tall. Considering the evolution of the ape-like animal
that became homo, it seems that once they became erect, the hind legs got
longer, maybe for better balance, running, etc. ?? I don't know. And, since I
can't draw well, I've never been able to make a decent image of them.
Just curious, as I say.....
________________________________
From: Austin Blanton <marblebo...@yahoo.com>
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: Working on my first conlang.
Well, yes. They are anthropomorphic cats. As in, they can walk upright, talk,
and have hand-like paws, but retain much of their feline anatomy.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 14, 2013, at 1:51 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
<goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So they're part cat?
>
> Pen name:
> Mellissa Green
> Blog
>
> www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
>
> Twitter
> @GreenNovelist
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
> Behalf Of Austin Blanton
> Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:57 PM
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> Subject: Re: Working on my first conlang.
>
> They actually don't. They can communicate in a sense with their feral
> cousins, and are adept at both bipedal and quadrupedal locomotion.
>
>> On Oct 13, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
> <goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Im not sure if you have an original idea. Do they shift into cat form?
>> I have some audio books on linguistics and phonetics. There's a website
> I'm
>> using to guide me called
>>
>> www.fridaynightlinguistics.org/languagecreation
>>
>> I also have a historical linguistics book.
>>
>> Pen name:
>> Mellissa Green
>> Blog
>>
>> www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
>>
>> Twitter
>> @GreenNovelist
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Austin Blanton
>> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:29 PM
>> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
>> Subject: Working on my first conlang.
>>
>> Hello. I am a relative newbie to conlanging. I have admired the works of
>> others for years, but have never really dipped into it fully until now. My
>> first love is fantasy writing, so my languages will for the most part
> serve
>> as a native tongue for races or cultures in my novels.
>>
>> For my first language, I want to create a language for a race of
>> anthropomorphic cat creatures. Original, I know. That being said... I have
>> begun the process of figuring out what kinds of sounds they are capable of
>> making. One example is the fact that because of their top lip being split
>> down the middle in the manner of most felids, they can not make bilabial
>> sounds. Similar to Spanish in that B and V would be interchangeable for
>> them. They would not be able to pronounce out B sound, so would resort to
> V.
>> Base -> Vase. In general, it tends to follow a Spanish or Arabic accent,
>> with the smooth sounds, and tendency to have a feline purr. The purr
> itself
>> will stem from them being anthropomorphic jungle cats, but will serve a
>> greater purpose, similar to the ceceo, or the Spanish trill.
>>
>> If this doesn't sound altogether silly to you, I would love some help
>> getting started with my first constructed language. Good day. =
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Working on my first conlang.
Posted by: "Austin Blanton" marblebo...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:49 pm ((PDT))
Also, thank you for the link. I hope you got my previous reply as well.
> On Oct 14, 2013, at 1:51 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
> <goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So they're part cat?
>
> Pen name:
> Mellissa Green
> Blog
>
> www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
>
> Twitter
> @GreenNovelist
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
> Behalf Of Austin Blanton
> Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:57 PM
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> Subject: Re: Working on my first conlang.
>
> They actually don't. They can communicate in a sense with their feral
> cousins, and are adept at both bipedal and quadrupedal locomotion.
>
>>> On Oct 13, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
>> <goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Im not sure if you have an original idea. Do they shift into cat form?
>> I have some audio books on linguistics and phonetics. There's a website
> I'm
>> using to guide me called
>>
>> www.fridaynightlinguistics.org/languagecreation
>>
>> I also have a historical linguistics book.
>>
>> Pen name:
>> Mellissa Green
>> Blog
>>
>> www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
>>
>> Twitter
>> @GreenNovelist
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Austin Blanton
>> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:29 PM
>> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
>> Subject: Working on my first conlang.
>>
>> Hello. I am a relative newbie to conlanging. I have admired the works of
>> others for years, but have never really dipped into it fully until now. My
>> first love is fantasy writing, so my languages will for the most part
> serve
>> as a native tongue for races or cultures in my novels.
>>
>> For my first language, I want to create a language for a race of
>> anthropomorphic cat creatures. Original, I know. That being said... I have
>> begun the process of figuring out what kinds of sounds they are capable of
>> making. One example is the fact that because of their top lip being split
>> down the middle in the manner of most felids, they can not make bilabial
>> sounds. Similar to Spanish in that B and V would be interchangeable for
>> them. They would not be able to pronounce out B sound, so would resort to
> V.
>> Base -> Vase. In general, it tends to follow a Spanish or Arabic accent,
>> with the smooth sounds, and tendency to have a feline purr. The purr
> itself
>> will stem from them being anthropomorphic jungle cats, but will serve a
>> greater purpose, similar to the ceceo, or the Spanish trill.
>>
>> If this doesn't sound altogether silly to you, I would love some help
>> getting started with my first constructed language. Good day. =
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Working on my first conlang.
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:34 pm ((PDT))
Sure, no problem about the link.
Pen name:
Mellissa Green
Blog
www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
Twitter
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
Behalf Of Austin Blanton
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 10:50 PM
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: Re: Working on my first conlang.
Also, thank you for the link. I hope you got my previous reply as well.
> On Oct 14, 2013, at 1:51 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
<goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So they're part cat?
>
> Pen name:
> Mellissa Green
> Blog
>
> www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
>
> Twitter
> @GreenNovelist
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
> Behalf Of Austin Blanton
> Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:57 PM
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> Subject: Re: Working on my first conlang.
>
> They actually don't. They can communicate in a sense with their feral
> cousins, and are adept at both bipedal and quadrupedal locomotion.
>
>>> On Oct 13, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
>> <goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Im not sure if you have an original idea. Do they shift into cat form?
>> I have some audio books on linguistics and phonetics. There's a website
> I'm
>> using to guide me called
>>
>> www.fridaynightlinguistics.org/languagecreation
>>
>> I also have a historical linguistics book.
>>
>> Pen name:
>> Mellissa Green
>> Blog
>>
>> www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
>>
>> Twitter
>> @GreenNovelist
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Austin Blanton
>> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:29 PM
>> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
>> Subject: Working on my first conlang.
>>
>> Hello. I am a relative newbie to conlanging. I have admired the works of
>> others for years, but have never really dipped into it fully until now.
My
>> first love is fantasy writing, so my languages will for the most part
> serve
>> as a native tongue for races or cultures in my novels.
>>
>> For my first language, I want to create a language for a race of
>> anthropomorphic cat creatures. Original, I know. That being said... I
have
>> begun the process of figuring out what kinds of sounds they are capable
of
>> making. One example is the fact that because of their top lip being split
>> down the middle in the manner of most felids, they can not make bilabial
>> sounds. Similar to Spanish in that B and V would be interchangeable for
>> them. They would not be able to pronounce out B sound, so would resort to
> V.
>> Base -> Vase. In general, it tends to follow a Spanish or Arabic accent,
>> with the smooth sounds, and tendency to have a feline purr. The purr
> itself
>> will stem from them being anthropomorphic jungle cats, but will serve a
>> greater purpose, similar to the ceceo, or the Spanish trill.
>>
>> If this doesn't sound altogether silly to you, I would love some help
>> getting started with my first constructed language. Good day. =
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: Xiis, my first writing system
Posted by: "Roger Mills" romi...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:50 pm ((PDT))
Hi-- nicely done, well explained. It does strike me that a lot of the
characters are very similar and could be hard to read....If a cursive version
were to develop, that could be a problem, no?
It seems to me that terran writing systems did mostly develop from pictographic
elements for record keeping-- once "organized" religions and governments
developed, and it was necessary for the priests/officials to know how much
stuff they had. Or from pictographs of objects like carts, vases/amphorae,
grains, birds, mountains, water etc... cf. Egyptian hieroglyphs and some
Chinese characters. Then, IIRC, some of the characters were chosen for their
phonetic value (e.g.I think the Egyptian character for "house" was _per_ or
some such, and that became the letter "p" when writing out names.
Semitic/Hebrew aleph is supposed to represent an ox's head, and that image even
affected the Indic-- later Devanagari-- letter for "a".
I'm just nattering on off the top of my head, but it's always been something of
interest to me.
________________________________
From: George Marques de Jesus <georgemje...@gmail.com>
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:13 AM
Subject: Xiis, my first writing system
After a long time of frustration trying to create the font for it, I
finally completed Xiis, a writing system for my conlang Fóm (which is still
a draft). I have to tell that I'm not completely satisfied with it, but at
least it's possible to actually write something using the computer keyboard.
I made a PDF with description and it can be found here:
http://georgemarques.com.br/xiis.pdf
George Marques
http://georgemarques.com.br
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: Xiis, my first writing system
Posted by: "Alex Fink" 000...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:29 pm ((PDT))
George Marques de Jesus <georgemje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> After a long time of frustration trying to create the font for it, I
> finally completed Xiis, a writing system for my conlang Fóm (which is still
> a draft). I have to tell that I'm not completely satisfied with it, but at
> least it's possible to actually write something using the computer keyboard.
>
> I made a PDF with description and it can be found here:
> http://georgemarques.com.br/xiis.pdf
Nicely put together. I certainly see the Hangul influence in the partial
featurality of the consonants, though in squirrelling all the distinctive bits
away in one little corner maybe it's more like Hebrew than Hangul.
The vowels and the consonants are strange in conjunction, though; they're drawn
from rather different stylistic palettes. I'd expect them to come to resemble
each other more in stroke makeup through use.
Incidentally, on the vowels, it is curious that /a~/ is written as nasal /3/
rather than nasal /a/ (like your Romanisation does). Is there a phonological
or historical reason for that?
Having an written null coda in every open syllable also feels rather heavy to
me, esp. given that nearly all the consonants also contain the top of the box
so that every sentence is basically visually hemmed in between two lines. A
situation ripe for a dose of dbu-medication? ;)
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 13:50:28 -0700, Roger Mills <romi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It seems to me that terran writing systems did mostly develop from
> pictographic elements for record keeping--
Well, if Hangul did -- and it seems to be one of the inspirants of Xiis -- then
it did only rather tenuously: it seems likely that the five basic letters /p t
k s l/ had their forms adapted from 'Phags-pa, which was Brahmic and so can
have such a development traced, but the other letters were pure featural
invention based on these. (Though of course Hangul was created in a cultural
context of already-existing scripts that dỳd develop this way.)
> once "organized" religions
> and governments developed, and it was necessary for the priests/officials
> to know how much stuff they had. Or from pictographs of objects like
> carts, vases/amphorae, grains, birds, mountains, water etc... cf.
> Egyptian hieroglyphs and some Chinese characters. Then, IIRC, some of the
> characters were chosen for their phonetic value (e.g.I think the Egyptian
> character for "house" was _per_ or some such,
Nitpick mode on: one oughta cite the Egyptian as _pr_. The "e" is this
European scholarly convention for reading the transcription aloud that doesn't
correspond to anything in the Egyptian vocalism.
> and that became the letter
> "p" when writing out names.
/b/ actually, after the Semitic *bayt- 'house'. The creators of the
proto-Sinaitic script lifted the forms of their letters from Egyptian but gave
them new Semitic acrophonic values, unrelated to the Egyptian ones.
> Semitic/Hebrew aleph is supposed to represent
> an ox's head, and that image even affected the Indic-- later Devanagari--
> letter for "a".
Alex
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
3c. Re: Xiis, my first writing system
Posted by: "George Marques de Jesus" georgemje...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:29 pm ((PDT))
2013/10/14 Alex Fink <000...@gmail.com>
> George Marques de Jesus <georgemje...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > After a long time of frustration trying to create the font for it, I
> > finally completed Xiis, a writing system for my conlang Fóm (which is
> still
> > a draft). I have to tell that I'm not completely satisfied with it, but
> at
> > least it's possible to actually write something using the computer
> keyboard.
> >
> > I made a PDF with description and it can be found here:
> > http://georgemarques.com.br/xiis.pdf
>
> Nicely put together. I certainly see the Hangul influence in the partial
> featurality of the consonants, though in squirrelling all the distinctive
> bits away in one little corner maybe it's more like Hebrew than Hangul.
>
I don't really know any of Hebrew, so any resemblance is not intentional.
The idea came really from Hangul.
>
> The vowels and the consonants are strange in conjunction, though; they're
> drawn from rather different stylistic palettes. I'd expect them to come to
> resemble each other more in stroke makeup through use.
>
> Incidentally, on the vowels, it is curious that /a~/ is written as nasal
> /3/ rather than nasal /a/ (like your Romanisation does). Is there a
> phonological or historical reason for that?
>
The reason is phonological, as the sound of the nasal is not as open as
/a/, so it's closer to /3/. But now I notice that it should be described as
/3~/ and not as /a~/ as I did in the paper. I'm gonna fix that.
>
> Having an written null coda in every open syllable also feels rather heavy
> to me, esp. given that nearly all the consonants also contain the top of
> the box so that every sentence is basically visually hemmed in between two
> lines. A situation ripe for a dose of dbu-medication? ;)
>
Without the null coda, I thought that something was missing, that's why I
added it. (and I don't know what's "dbu-medication").
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 13:50:28 -0700, Roger Mills <romi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > It seems to me that terran writing systems did mostly develop from
> > pictographic elements for record keeping--
>
> Well, if Hangul did -- and it seems to be one of the inspirants of Xiis --
> then it did only rather tenuously: it seems likely that the five basic
> letters /p t k s l/ had their forms adapted from 'Phags-pa, which was
> Brahmic and so can have such a development traced, but the other letters
> were pure featural invention based on these. (Though of course Hangul was
> created in a cultural context of already-existing scripts that dỳd develop
> this way.)
>
> > once "organized" religions
> > and governments developed, and it was necessary for the priests/officials
> > to know how much stuff they had. Or from pictographs of objects like
> > carts, vases/amphorae, grains, birds, mountains, water etc... cf.
> > Egyptian hieroglyphs and some Chinese characters. Then, IIRC, some of the
> > characters were chosen for their phonetic value (e.g.I think the Egyptian
> > character for "house" was _per_ or some such,
>
> Nitpick mode on: one oughta cite the Egyptian as _pr_. The "e" is this
> European scholarly convention for reading the transcription aloud that
> doesn't correspond to anything in the Egyptian vocalism.
>
> > and that became the letter
> > "p" when writing out names.
>
> /b/ actually, after the Semitic *bayt- 'house'. The creators of the
> proto-Sinaitic script lifted the forms of their letters from Egyptian but
> gave them new Semitic acrophonic values, unrelated to the Egyptian ones.
>
> > Semitic/Hebrew aleph is supposed to represent
> > an ox's head, and that image even affected the Indic-- later Devanagari--
> > letter for "a".
>
> Alex
>
George Marques
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4a. How to present a conlang?
Posted by: "Ian Spolarich" mouton9...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:18 pm ((PDT))
Hello all, I would like to ask your opinion on a rather important
issue--conlang presentation. As I am currently applying to various
colleges, I thought that being able to list "made my own language" as an
accomplishment could be a positive addition to my application.
Now, the problem is I'm not sure how to best convey the conlang. Just
saying that I made my own language isn't enough, I would like to convey the
grammatical, phonological, and lexical depth and complexities of the
language, because it is certainly not just a relex of English.
Here are my ideas so far:
- A short typed paragraph, summarizing the purpose and concept of the
language, and outlining the major interesting grammatical features.
- A small website, which requires more time and effort, detailing aspects
of the language, including a dictionary and some translations in addition
to grammatical topics.
- A paper of sorts, beginning with an overview of the language and then
providing the most specific information, with a dictionary and translations.
While I do have a grammar that I use for the language, it is not really
presentable to others, especially people with minimal familiarity with
conlangs/linguistics. Ideally, the presentation method should not require
very much effort but should effectively convey that the language is not
childish or simple...
So if anyone has any ideas about presentation, or previous experience in
presentation, I would love to hear it!
- Karl
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
4b. Re: How to present a conlang?
Posted by: "Ben Scerri" psykieki...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:31 pm ((PDT))
Personally I have always found websites best for this sort of thing. They
seem less intimidating to those less entrenched in the hobby, and you can
break the information up nicely into individual pages. Either that, or a
wiki would work well.
However, I would discourage putting your conlanging on a CV or anything
like that for a college. Unless you're going into linguistics or the like,
such information is irrelevant. And if you are going into linguistics, then
it might hurt your chances more than help them. Far to many linguistics
professors I have encountered have had pretty grim views on the subject,
considering it anywhere from a waste of time to actively harming the
linguistic community. If you don't know the stance of the people you are
applying to before hand, it might harm your chances.
But please still find a way to present your conlang! Especially if you have
a script to go along with it. I need to look at more scripts!!!
Just my $0.02.
On 15 October 2013 14:18, Ian Spolarich <mouton9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all, I would like to ask your opinion on a rather important
> issue--conlang presentation. As I am currently applying to various
> colleges, I thought that being able to list "made my own language" as an
> accomplishment could be a positive addition to my application.
>
> Now, the problem is I'm not sure how to best convey the conlang. Just
> saying that I made my own language isn't enough, I would like to convey the
> grammatical, phonological, and lexical depth and complexities of the
> language, because it is certainly not just a relex of English.
>
> Here are my ideas so far:
>
> - A short typed paragraph, summarizing the purpose and concept of the
> language, and outlining the major interesting grammatical features.
>
> - A small website, which requires more time and effort, detailing aspects
> of the language, including a dictionary and some translations in addition
> to grammatical topics.
>
> - A paper of sorts, beginning with an overview of the language and then
> providing the most specific information, with a dictionary and
> translations.
>
> While I do have a grammar that I use for the language, it is not really
> presentable to others, especially people with minimal familiarity with
> conlangs/linguistics. Ideally, the presentation method should not require
> very much effort but should effectively convey that the language is not
> childish or simple...
>
> So if anyone has any ideas about presentation, or previous experience in
> presentation, I would love to hear it!
>
> - Karl
>
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
4c. Re: How to present a conlang?
Posted by: "David Peterson" deda...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:38 pm ((PDT))
On Oct 14, 2013, at 8:31 PM, Ben Scerri <psykieki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> However, I would discourage putting your conlanging on a CV or anything
> like that for a college. Unless you're going into linguistics or the like,
> such information is irrelevant. And if you are going into linguistics, then
> it might hurt your chances more than help them. Far to many linguistics
> professors I have encountered have had pretty grim views on the subject,
> considering it anywhere from a waste of time to actively harming the
> linguistic community. If you don't know the stance of the people you are
> applying to before hand, it might harm your chances.
This is simply not true anymore�at least not in the United States. First of
all, if you're applying as an undergraduate, you're applying to a school, not a
program, and the only place that any extra curricular activities will show up
is either in your personal statement or other such material, where really the
point is to demonstrate your writing skills and personality, and to offer
additional information that doesn't show up on a standard application. There's
about zero chance that mentioning a conlang will be the thing that kills an
application, all other aspects being equal, and maybe 0.005% chance that it
will be the thing that gets you in over another application that's considered
about equivalent. That has nothing to do with conlanging so much as it does the
application process for undergraduates at American universities.
As for graduate school, the pool is a lot smaller, what schools are looking for
can be a lot more specific, and conlanging is actually more relevant. In 2013,
I would find it remarkable to hear of a school passing over a qualified
conlanger simply because they're a conlanger and were open about the fact. That
said, unlike an undergraduate application, a graduate school application goes
into a lot more depth and gets a lot more attention. If an applicant says that
as their Ph.D. they want to put together a conlang, then, no, they probably
won't be admitted, but really if that's their goal, then linguistics graduate
school isn't the place for them, anyway. But being open about conlanging? It
can't possibly hurt any longer. First of all, joining a graduate program is
much more like joining a family than becoming an undergraduate: there are a lot
fewer people you interact with, and you come to know everyone. It doesn't work
if you're constantly hiding who you are. Plus, if what you do in your spare
time is linguistics-related, it shows something about the role of language in
your life (same thing if you taught in the JET program, you spent time in the
Peace Corps in a place where you had to learn and use a new language, etc.).
None of these things is directly relevant to linguistics, but it doesn't hurt
to mention.
Back to your original question, Ian, if you're applying as an undergraduate, it
seems to me that, practically, it will not make a big difference, because I
can't imagine anyone checking up on it�not because they wouldn't ever be
interested, but because they're looking through thousands of applications. They
have a triage system that takes place with applications, and I think there's
going to be a lot of hoops to jump through before they get to the point where
they start checking on the veracity of extracurricular activities. However, if
you are looking for a way to present it specifically for a college application,
I highly recommend option 2. First of all, someone is more likely to look at a
website than download and read a .pdf, and second, it will demonstrate your web
skills. This'll work better if you create your own website and it looks good,
but overall I think it's still a long shot that it'll get a look. Also,
something to keep in mind, if you're doing this specifically for an
undergraduate application committee, there's a very good chance they will not
have the technical expertise to tell the difference between a well-constructed
language and a poorly-constructed language, and they probably also will not
have the vocabulary to understand what you're talking about. There are two
schools of thought of how to handle this: (1) Make it look technical with lots
of charts so they just look at it and think, "Wow, that's detailed" and give it
a pass, or (2) make it actually comprehensible and aesthetically pleasing.
Either way, best of luck applying!
David Peterson
LCS President
presid...@conlang.org
www.conlang.org
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
4d. Re: How to present a conlang?
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:06 pm ((PDT))
Why are you putting that on your application?
Pen name:
Mellissa Green
Blog
www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
Twitter
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
Behalf Of Ian Spolarich
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:18 PM
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: How to present a conlang?
Hello all, I would like to ask your opinion on a rather important
issue--conlang presentation. As I am currently applying to various
colleges, I thought that being able to list "made my own language" as an
accomplishment could be a positive addition to my application.
Now, the problem is I'm not sure how to best convey the conlang. Just
saying that I made my own language isn't enough, I would like to convey the
grammatical, phonological, and lexical depth and complexities of the
language, because it is certainly not just a relex of English.
Here are my ideas so far:
- A short typed paragraph, summarizing the purpose and concept of the
language, and outlining the major interesting grammatical features.
- A small website, which requires more time and effort, detailing aspects
of the language, including a dictionary and some translations in addition
to grammatical topics.
- A paper of sorts, beginning with an overview of the language and then
providing the most specific information, with a dictionary and translations.
While I do have a grammar that I use for the language, it is not really
presentable to others, especially people with minimal familiarity with
conlangs/linguistics. Ideally, the presentation method should not require
very much effort but should effectively convey that the language is not
childish or simple...
So if anyone has any ideas about presentation, or previous experience in
presentation, I would love to hear it!
- Karl
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
5a. Re: verb-less language, maybe
Posted by: "Roger Mills" romi...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:20 pm ((PDT))
From: qiihoskeh <qiihos...@gmail.com>
I've been working on a possibly verb-less language. Verb roots appear only as
derived nouns (action nominals and participant nominals), so the only clauses
are Subject-Complement, where both subject and complement are noun phrases.
There's no copula. Nominative is used for both subject and complement while
genitive is used for possessors. Since the object of a noun must be expressed
as a possessor, there's no accusative case. There are also dative,
instrumental, and adverbial cases, since these can be used with nominal hosts.
As an example, for "John reads books" one says "John is a reader of books"
(John-Nom book-NR-Gen reader-NR-Nom).
=========================================================================================
A very long time ago I played around with something similar. "verbs" were
actually sort-of gerunds; their subjects were in Ablative case (in those days I
only knew about Latin)-- they should have been Instrumental or something
else.... Objects of these "gerunds" were in the genitive case-- so
'John is reading a book' became: (There is) reading of-books
by-John----somewhat similar to your idea. That "there is" was just to carry
tense when necessary, and it probably could have been substituted with
something else...or eliminated entirely, if I'd known a lot more about
language/linguistics at that time.
I do think I had the sense to realize that some verbs ought to have a "dative"
subject-- like "John is sick" = (there is) sickness to-John.
But the whole thing got a little awkward, considering my abilities at the time,
and I rather quickly lost interest.
Messages in this topic (4)
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