-Caveat Lector-
Someone wrote:
May I suggest that all who are disaffected by Socialism
on the one hand, and "vulture" (Pat Buchanan's phrase)
or "loan shark" capitalism (which we have in the US now)
<snip>
MJ:
May I recommend an education in terminology before one
attempts to malign 'a rose by ANOTHER name'?
America has NOT a capitalist economy but a MIXED economy
with Government controls, regulations and planning to its
detriment.
nurev wrote:
Typical Libertarian bullshit. America has a slightly mixed
economy which is firmly in the hands of Capitalists. The
very worst of both possibilities.
It's the Capitalist Elites who enjoy the fruits of
Socialism by owning the government. And it's the poor
and working class who enjoy the bitter leftovers of
capitalism.
MJ:
Your blatant contradiction of yourself aside ...
Capitalism requires a SEPARATION of the economy and the
state -- hardly a reality within the US.
Nurev opined:
This is the stupidest statement I've yet seen on the subject.
I don't know what planet you live on, but on Earth, Capitalism
can not exist without the state, and MUST control the state
or die. Show me even ONE case where capitalism thrives
independent of the state. EVEN ONE!!!
MJ:
There has NEVER been a truly capitalist society, though America
came close during its first 150 years.
Nurev opined:
Capitalism is an inherently unstable and self destructive
economic system that REQUIRES the state to pull Capitalists'
chestnuts out of the fire time and time again. Capitalists
REQUIRE the state to protect their interests from competition.
BUT WHO PROTECTS THE REST OF US FROM CAPITALISM? Not the state
because the state is run by the very people we need the
protection from.
MJ:
I am becoming dizzy from your Circulus in demonstrando, ad
hoc and non sequitur.
By your above remarks:
Capitalism is unstable and requires the state to save it ... yet the
state is run by these same people who are unstable -- but
capable of saving themselves. Certainly profound.
American Heritage states:
capˇiˇtalˇism (kāpšî-tl-îz´em) noun
An economic system in which the means of production and
distribution are privately or corporately owned and
development is proportionate to the accumulation and
reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.
Capitalism means the complete separation of economy and
state, just like the separation of church and state.
Capitalism is the social system based upon private
ownership of the means of production which entails a
completely uncontrolled and unregulated economy where all
land is privately owned. But the separation of the state
and the economy is not a primary, it is only an aspect of
the premise that capitalism is based upon: individual rights.
Capitalism is the only politico-economic system based on
the doctrine of individual rights. This means that
capitalism recognizes that each and every person is the
owner of his own life, and has the right to live his life
in any manner he chooses as long as he does not violate the
rights of others.
The essential nature of capitalism is social harmony through
the pursuit of self-interest. Under capitalism, the individual's
pursuit of his own economic self-interest simultaneously
benefits the economic self-interests of all others. In allowing
each individual to act unhampered by government regulations,
capitalism causes wealth to be created in the most efficient
manner possible which ultimately raises the standard of living,
increases the economic opportunities, and makes available an
ever growing supply of products for everyone. The free-market
operates in such a way so that as one man creates more wealth
for himself, he simultaneously creates more wealth for everyone,
which means that as the rich become richer, the poor become
richer too. It must be understood that capitalism serves the
economic self-interests of all, including the non-capitalists.
Contrary to widely held beliefs, capitalism is not a system
which exploits a large portion of society for the sake of a
small minority of wealthy capitalists. Ironically, it is
actually socialism that causes the systematic exploitation
of labor. Since the socialist state holds a universal monopoly
on labor and production, no economic incentive exists for the
socialist state to provide anything more than minimum physical
subsistence for the workers except to perhaps prevent riots
or revolutions. Exploitation is inherent to the nature of
socialism because individuals cannot exist for their own sake,
rather, they exist merely as means to whatever ends the socialist
rulers -- the self-proclaimed spokesman of 'society', may have
in mind.
As I have previously pointed, America is mucked in a mixed
economy much to our detriment.
Nurev continued:
I don't know what fantasy you live in, but pull your head
out of wherever you've placed it and LOOK AROUND YOU.
I want to control the state democratically and I don't want
businessmen to run this society surreptitiously any longer.
MJ:
I would prefer the Government was restrained to its only
legitimate function of protecting all individuals from force
and fraud -- your idea of Tyranny by the majority is no more
appealing than the Statist displacement we are currently
saddled.
Nurev:
More people feel like I do due to the antics of people you
seem to admire. In the end, it will go our way because there
are more of us than there are of you. If you don't like
that, you may leave. I suggest you go to Russia where your
kind of economic philosophy is practiced.
Take a sweater.
MJ:
Yes, I am familiar with the Myrmidons who prefer anything to
liberty and freedom -- including the maintenance of a Kakistocracy..
I refrained from your other two (2) musings as they were
not coherent.
Regard$,
--MJ
What's *just* has been debated for centuries but let me offer
you my definition of social justice: I keep what I earn and you
keep what you earn. Do you disagree? Well then tell me how much
of what I earn *belongs* to you -- and why? --Walter Williams
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
