-Caveat Lector-
----Original Message Follows----
From: Jon Roland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Fw: WACO: Joyce Riley on Art Bell 9/2/99
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:26:01 -0500 (CDT)
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
To listen to the discussion of Waco by Joyce Riley on Art Bell,
download the
program.
Click to listen: http://ww2.broadcast.com/artbell/abell/9909/ab0902.ram
Pertinent parts begin at approximately 2 hours, six minutes (2:06) into the
program. To fastforward to this point in the program, just move the clip
position indicator with your mouse until the time indicator reads somewhere
close to 2:06:00.0
Rough transcript beginning at above time (not proofread or spell-checked):
ART BELL: All kinds of information breaking about Waco, just all kinds.
I know you have new, as yet unheard by anybody information about Waco.
What can you tell us?
JOYCE RILEY: Well, let me preface this by saying the purpose for this
person coming forward with the information was that he is a sick Gulf
War veteran, and we had a long discussion about the secrets of the
Gulf War illness and the cover-up involved there, and I said, "Just like
Waco, there needs to be the exposure of the truth about Waco." And
he said, "I know about Waco." And I said, "How do you know about
Waco?" And he said, "I know more than I wish I knew. I was stationed
at Fort Hood and we were the unit that provided the Apache attack
helicopters."
You can imagine how startled I was to hear that there were Apache
attack helicopters, because an Apache is not even armed in the United
States. It's never armed because it is nothing but a helicopter for war.
It's --
ART: An Apache, actually, was probably the most efficient killing
machine in the Gulf War, so efficient that the images were hidden from
the American people. The Apache is an incredible war machine. People
have no idea how devastating the fire power from that helicopter can be.
JOYCE: Oh, it is. It looks like a preying mantis. It is the helicopter
that
has the wheels on it. And if you were to ever see one, it is just -- it's
very formidable. And in talking with this Gulf War veteran, and part of the
reason I'm saying this today is because of his -- for his protection,
because
Texas Rangers have become involved in this since I talked with you, Art,
so I'm not at liberty to identify some of the things that I was going to
say.
But I did get a phone call from Dick DeGuerin today, which the attorney
for the Branch Dividians, and I can assure you that this information that
he gave coincides with what he already knew and speculated.
But let me just say that this Gulf War veteran, after we talked about this,
I said, "You know you have a responsibility to come forward, because if
we want people to tell the truth about Gulf War illness, if we want
the people to come out of the Pentagon and out of the corners in the
back alleys and admit to what has gone on there, we're going to have to
tell what we know." So he has come forward. He is a destitute, if you
will, Gulf War veteran who has no purpose in doing this other than the
world needs to know the truth, and it is time that we quit harboring
these secrets under the name of military adventure or military action.
What he told me is that while he was stationed at Fort Hood at the
F227 Aviation Apache Attack Squadron, that they armed the Apache
helicopters to go in to Waco.
ART: They armed them.
JOYCE: They armed them. Now understanding that if what we say is
true here today, this is the most devastating information to come across,
because this puts the liability and the accountability all the way up to
the president, for arming a helicopter for a war situation within the
United States, basically violating the Posse Commitatus Act.
ART: Absolutely.
JOYCE: So, when he described this operation, I asked him what they
armed the helicopters with.
ART: Good. And what did he say?
JOYCE: He said they armed them -- there were 20 helicopters that took
turns going back and forth between Ft. Hood and Waco, which is a
5-minute flight or a 20-minute drive -- 30-minute drive. They were
supported by the 3rd Armored Division. They armed these helicopters
with eight Hellfire missiles, which to the person that may not know a
Hellfire, it can go through an M-1 tank and it explodes into a fireball.
There was a belly gun with an M-60 armor-piercing 20-millimeter cannon.
The round pod(?) contained, 50 on each side, air-to-ground 122-millimeter
rockets. There were also air-to-ground two Devor(?) Sidewinder missiles
loaded on each helicopter. Those are the -- the Sidewinder missiles are
the ones that are on the wings of the F-16. There were two Apaches at
all times at Waco. There were eight -- there were Blackhawk helicopters,
2 to 4 of those, with eight per -- eight individuals per Blackhawk, and
there were Humvees that were there. He also said there were Delta
Forces. He does not want to say the unit or where they came from,
however they were present there and he did talk with them.
ART: Delta Forces.
JOYCE: Correct. So there's confirmation on the Delta Forces. Now,
the critical part of this is we have weapons being deployed that are
only used for a war situation, and, by the way, when they are used at
Ft. Hood in the training maneuvers, he said they do not even use these
weapons. They have a training area outside of Ft. Hood and only the
red colored weapons can be used, which are the [?] weapons. He
said never. I asked him, "Why did they think they were going into
Mt. Carmel?" And he said they had been told this was a very hostile
situation, they were heavily armed and it was a cult.
Now, for anyone out there who does not understand, I want to clear
the air with respect to David Koresh. I have talked with people in Waco,
I have worked with attorneys there, and I can assure there was no legal
search warrant, there was no child exploitation going on there. This
was a whole different situation than we were told. So, it's all
perception media that we received.
ART: Well, I know the psychiatrist that examined the children that
did come out, Joyce, said they found them to be well-adjusted. That's
my recollection. Now it's a long time ago, but that's what I recall.
JOYCE: That's right. And I also -- my husband, who was doing a talk
show for WATR in Waterbury, Connecticut, did an interview with Clive
Doyle(?), who is one of the individuals who escaped from Mt. Carmel,
and I had talked to --
...<snip....
JOYCE: Well, I will say that Clyde Doyle has said much of what I have
heard here from this individual, because this changes the whole
perspective of things and, literally, this radio show tonight, because
this information will be coming out in the Dallas Morning News --
ART: Well, there's a little more, Joyce, and I don't know whether
you can comment on this or not. You told me very descriptively what
the Apaches were armed with. What did they come back with?
JOYCE: And that is the critical issue. I asked him how -- I asked him
what happened at Mt. Carmel the day of the fire, and he said, "The
Apaches fired. They fired upon something." And I asked him, "If they
had fired upon and missed Mt. Carmel or fired out into a field, would
there have been a hole?" And he said, "There would have been a
huge, huge hole and everyone would have known about it." I asked
him how they knew that they fired upon Mt. Carmel, and of course
he talked with the pilots and he has named all the individuals. Then
he said, "We know they fired because half of the weaponry was
missing."
ART: Half of the ordnance was missing?
JOYCE: That's correct. Half of those Hellfire missiles were missing.
ART: God.
JOYCE: And those are the ones that explode into a fireball. So, this
information obviously is now going to go to the forefront of the
investigation, and I can only say that I am grateful that he has come
forward. I hope he has the strength to continue on this, and I know
this is not going to be easy for him as sick as he is, also. And I just
commend him, because this is the only way, if we band together as
Americans to help each other, can the truth come out, and there's a
lot of truth out there and there's a lot of people that have information
that they can provide us.
ART: Apparently so. Listen, let me read to you what Matt Drudge
wrote tonight and see if this resonates with you. Matt wrote, "A federal
judge wants all Waco evidence, threatens government with contempt.
According to Friday's Atlanta Journal Constitution, United States
District Judge Walter Smith, Jr. has ordered the federal government
to turn over all evidence relating to the Branch Dividian siege at Waco
by the end of the month or face a contempt of court citation. The
Journal Constitution's Mark Englen and Tommy Witherspoon are
reporting that Judge Smith has dismissed Justice's strongly worded
19-page motion in response to his original August 9th Order as an,
quote, 'unwarranted and substantial burden.' Justice argued that
Judge Smith's original request for all the evidence was too demanding.
Smith wrote, 'The Court finds this argument somewhat disingenuous
since the government has been in possession of this material for
six and one-half years and has been aware since 1996, when the
civil suits were originally filed, that this material could very well
be subject to discovery.' End quote. He continued, quote,
'Additionally, the Court would have thought that the vast majority
of the material now sought in this civil litigation would have already
been compiled as a result of the various Congressional hearings
held over the Branch Dividian matter.' End quote. Smith is set
to preside over the Branch Davidians' wrongful death civil lawsuit
scheduled to begin in late October.
So, here's a judge prepared to hold the U.S. government in contempt.
JOYCE: Well, I'm not -- I'm not threatened by that and I'm not -- I'm
sure that they are not threatened, either. You know, the idea is that
we have lost human lives.
ART: Well, they ought to be threatened. We had a president,
whatever you think of him, good, bad or ugly, who held some courts
in contempt and filed some special prosecutors, and it took a while,
Joyce, but in the end, my god, they pried the evidence out. And so
they better be concerned, because the Judicial Branch of our
government is not to be ignored. They can't hold -- I hold them in
contempt. I hold our government in contempt.
JOYCE: Well, I think every person does, but I think, for instance, they
have just now announced that perhaps Mr. Rudman -- Senator Rudman
will now be listed as the chief of the investigating committee on Waco.
Well, he's the one that just headed up the Gulf War investigating
committee and found nobody sick and there's no problem.
ART: We're now, all of a sudden, hearing, Joyce, that the Attorney
General, who had just come in in the middle of this mess in Waco,
may not, they say, have been told everything. You been hearing about
that?
JOYCE: Oh, absolutely.
ART: May not have been told everything.
JOYCE: But, Art, how many people do you think know when an Apache
helicopter -- twenty Apache helicopters are armed and are circling
over a church? How many people do you think know about this? Do
you think the Attorney General does? Absolutely, she does.
ART: Ought to. Certainly ought to. Now it was kind of hard to tell,
because as you recall during the end, in days, they moved the media
way, way back. Remember that?
JOYCE: Oh, yes.
ART: So, if that sort of thing was going on -- and I've also now heard
it mentioned that the gas cannisters that were tossed in were
flammable as well and could have started fires. They're trying to say,
"Well, we tossed them in much earlier than the fire and while they
could have caused a fire, they didn't, but they were not the primary
cause of the fire." So, all of a sudden, everything they said then is
BS now. Seems that way.
JOYCE: Well, and everything is turned around and contorted and
deluded. I mean, maybe it was a Hellfire missile that ends up in a
fireball that started the fire.
ART: Maybe it was. Maybe it was. God help us.
JOYCE: But, you know, colonels and generals at Ft. Hood don't just
say, hey, let's send an Apache helicopter, fully armed with Hellfire
Spitfire missiiles, 122-millimeter rockets.
ART: Yeah. Here's something that I, to this day, Joyce, do not
understand. I watched the FBI briefings daily, as did so many
Americans, and inevitably the FBI spokesman, you know, knowing
there were women, children in there, said, "If necessary, we'll wait
until hell freezes over," whatever it was, "We won't go in violently.
We won't end this violently. We will respond, but we will not end
it violently. We will wait them out." And then something changed.
JOYCE: Well, the stage had to be set to try and put the burden on
them for having started their own fire. They had to set the stage
that we're not going to do anything, so if anything happens here it
will have been the Branch Davidians. But, you know, there were
holes in the top of that church --
ART: I know.
JOYCE: -- prior to the time of the fire. There were people inside
there that actually saw, including Dick DeGuerin, the attorney.
Now you don't get holes inside that big unless they come from
a helicopter -- an attack helicopter such as that. So what we have
here is lie upon lie upon lie. You can -- you know, there can be
a million lies, but there's only one truth, and I think that our
government is going to face the most difficult time in its near
future now, and we're not talking about people to just be fired
or slapped on the wrist for what they did; we're talking about a
whole reevaluation of the people that are in power right now.
Not the government. We like -- we love this Constitutional
Republic, but there's got to be a total reevaluation of the people
and the power that they now have.
ART: All right, Joyce, Hold it right there. Well, did you digest
what you just heard? Fully armed, heavily weighted down
Apache helicopters with the ordnance just described, coming
back with about half of what they left with. I wonder where it
went. To serve and protect, huh? And then, I suppose, at times
to slaughter as well. From the high desert, this is coast-to-coast
AM.
[Break -- 2:22:25 into program]
---------------End of Original Message-----------------
916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 09/03/99 Time: 08:36:27
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