From: "Nicky Molloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sorry June its pointless talking further, eg how do we know you aren't a CIA
> agent? It obvious if you were you may know more for a start on this subject
> instead of turning this into a psychological exercise in belief systems..
But how would you know whether I am or am not a CIA agent? And that perhaps
I'm an agent with an agenda?
Or just a regular Jane Doe with an agenda, which I help further by CLAIMING
I am a CIA agent, when in fact I am not?
You don't. You just accept at face value, with no research or critical
analysis, anybody's claim that parallels your own entrenched belief system.
And THAT, dear lady, is dogma...
> As for you saying I have dogma. All I said is I'm a Christian and
> nothing else, the rest is your 'belief system' you so gladly promote.
Dogma comes in many flavors. Some of it comes dressed as traditional,
mainstream religiosity. Still other comes cloaked as a belief in ETs,
when there is no EVIDENCE for the existence of ETs.
> Nessie do you think some theorists like M Persinger have any more value than
> those who have personally experienced Ets? Why trust anybody who is sitting
> reading books on this subject and comparing an abductee experience to an
> induced one. Sure listen to the guy but he knows no more about the 'reality'
> of it than June who hasn't read much at all on this.
Bulloney. I have 4 decades of reading on the subject. Readings encompassing
ALL theories, unlike you who put on blinders and refuse to consider anything
except your own dogma.
There is not one obstensible 'abductee' who has ever provided hard evidence
that what they experienced was due to the actions of beings who flew to Earth
in a spaceship from some other physical place in the universe.
That is not to say that those who claim to have been abducted are lying, or
are hallucinating. I'm prepared to accept that the majority had SOMETHING
happen to them. But there is no EVIDENCE that it was ET instigated...only
that what they remember afterwards includes a supposed ET scenario.
Memories can be implanted. There could be a very mundane, earthly agency
afoot with these abductions, and agency that is utilizing false ET scenarios
to cover their tracks, and perhaps achieve their own agenda.
Again, testimony by any number of people claiming to have been abducted by
space beings is not EVIDENCE that ETs exist.
> But we do 'believe'
> from others who have seen throught he deception that the US military are
> faking alien abductions so they can abduct people. But there are geniune
> abductions because people ahve travelled in spaceships and gone to other
> planets and brought back souvenirs.
No, certain people have thoughts, which they interpret as memories, that
seemed to encompass travel in a spaceship, when in fact it could be mind
control and/or implanted false memory.
Two cases in point:
The first entails what was one of the first cases of 'alien encounter' and
possible abduction, which occurred somewhere in South America in the late
1950s or early 1960s (it's been over 2 decades since I read about this, so
I don't remember the exact country -- it may have been Brazil, or perhaps
Venezuela)...
A man was traveling from a distant town to his home town at night (this
now is such a common scenario it seems cliche'd, but at the time this was
a new phenomenom)...saw a strange light in the sky, next thing he knew he
was farther down the road than where he remembered, had an hour or so of
missing time, etc. etc.
He had no memory of what happened during the missing time, but was very
nervous, to the point that he became ill. When he finally sought medical
help (his ailment was psychologically based, not due to any 'implant'),
he began to 'spontaneously remember' what had happened to him during that
missing time....
It was the typical scenario...the light came down, of course it was a
spaceship...his car engine 'mysteriously' died, he got out of the car
to see better, got met by space aliens and brought on board their ship
where they did any number of terrible experiments on him, only relieved
by a sexy, buxom blonde coming in at the end and having sex with him (he
claimed they forced him to have an erection)...
This was roundly reported in all the UFO and 'strange events' publications
of the day...probably even got printed up in a book or two as 'proof' that
ETs were coming here and doing things to us...
But then another gentleman came forward...
Seems he was an acquaintance of the first gentleman...not close acquaintances,
but they knew each other in passing, and more importantly the 2nd guy knew
the vehicle the 1st guy drove...
And seems the 2nd guy was driving that same road that same night...remembered
the 1st guy passing him on the road...the 2nd guy was driving somewhat slower,
plus had to stop for gas...so he was a couple of miles behind the 1st guy...
The 2nd guy never saw any strange light in the sky...he DID see a strange
glow of lights ahead on the highway, and slowed down to see what was going
on (he at first thought there was an accident)...
What the 2nd guy claimed to have come upon were 2 or 3 tractor trailers pulled
off on the shoulder, along with a few military vehicles. He reported the area
was flooded with klieg lights, and he heard a generator in one of the trucks
which presumably was powering the lights.
A lot of men -- all of them human -- wearing the uniform of the military of
that country, were milling about, and the man saw his acquaintance -- the 1st
gentleman who later claimed to remember being abducted by space aliens --
just standing straight, with his arms at his sides and staring ahead with a
glassy stare, as if in a trance...
When the 2nd guy got out of his car and called to his acquaintance, the 1st
guy showed no signs of hearing him. Then the 2nd guy got surrounded by the
military guys, escorted to another area away from his acquaintance, and told
to go on his way and not talk about what he had seen, since it involved
"matters of national security".
So the 2nd guy went on his way and thought little more of it, until he started
reading about the 1st guy claiming to have been abducted by space aliens that
night, when he decided that what he had seen couldn't be such a 'matter of
national security' if the 1st guy was getting published in international press...
Now, which of the men is telling the truth?
Both are, probably...the truth as they know it. But what is the EVIDENCE for
the validity of either man's statement of what happened that evening? Not
much, if any...for either story. So what we have left are our own critical
facilities, to objectively analyze both stories. And if we are both
objective AND critical, the 2nd guy's version is more believable than the
1st guy's.
Perhaps the 2nd guy is really a disinformationalist, and his goal was to
cast doubts on the 1st guy's story. Possibly. But the 2nd guy was just
a regular schmuck...worked as a car mechanic or something. He wasn't any
one high up in society, had no obvious ties to the military...so it would
seem he wasn't an agent working for the military. He was given a lie
detector test, which showed that he was telling the truth as he perceived
it.
The first guy also passed a lie detector test.
Again, we have a case of both men telling the truth as they perceived it...
but we have no EVIDENCE for the validity of either man's claim.
======================================
Second case:
I remember reading about this in some UFO magazine back in the 80s...
Seems there was a woman in the Australian outback who claimed to not only
be abducted by ETs on a routine basis, but that she could PREDICT when her
next encounter and abduction would occur...
This woman gave very detailed accounts of what happened to her on board
the spaceship, even remembering in detail the conversations she had with
the ETs...
She passed a lie detector test, too...
This was too good to pass up, so a pair of researchers in the UFO field
went to Australia and visited with the woman, and arranged to take her
out to 'the pick up point' on the nights she said she knew an abduction
would take place...
The 3 of them sat in the car and waited. Suddenly the woman exclaimed
"Here they come!" and pointed to an area in the sky where she said the
spaceship could clearly be seen.
The 2 researchers saw nothing.
But the woman was quite insistent that it was there, and got more
agitated as she described it coming closer and hovering over the car...
Again, the researchers saw nothing.
Then the 'abductee' graphically described being levitated into the
spacecraft, and being subjected to any number of painful procedures,
the 'abductee' describing in detail the interior of the craft, screaming
in pain during the painful procedures, and then afterwards described in
detail the trip she was taken on in this craft, looking out a window and
seeing the Earth disappearing below as the craft went on a joyride of
the Milky Way...
All the while, the 2 researchers were sitting next to her in their car,
as this 'abductee' recounted her abduction experience. At the end, when
the woman reported being returned to the car, she swore she had really,
PHYSICALLY been abducted, and wouldn't believe the researchers when they
told her she had never left the car.
Now, this supposed 'abductee' passed every lie detector test she was
given. She was telling the truth AS SHE PERCEIVED IT. But her truth
was not the objective truth. The objective truth is that she never
left the car, and experienced something that was purely mental and
emotional in nature, not physical.
One could argue that the ETs were manipulating her mind. Perhaps, but
I would put that at the bottom of the list of possibilities. Excluding
the possibility that this woman is insane, I would look to a purely
Earthly agency as the source of her hallucination.
The article pointed out that the favorite 'abduction point' for this
woman was only a few miles away from a top secret U.S. military post
(yes, in Australia)...
I'm sure the dogmatic 'true believers' will argue that the top secret
U.S. military base in Australia is hiding thousands of ETs in its
underground tunnels.
I tend to believe that whatever involvement the military has is instead
solely involved with mind control and implanting false memories....to
achieve a certain agenda, an agenda which is furthered by encouraging a
"spacemen are not only coming here, but abducting us and doing terrible
things to us" scenario...
=============================
NO ONE has brought back 'evidence' from a supposed abduction. They have
brought back mental images they interpret as memories, and perhaps an
artifact....and not one artifact has stood up to extensive tests, every
single one, when thoroughly tested, could have been manufactured right
here on Earth.
Sorry, but there are NO 'souvenirs' which stand up to extensive scrutiny.
> Reasons being-
> 1 They have read too many books including disinfo so can't decide truth.
Or as in your case, too little, and only those publications which further your
own dogma....
> 2.They have had drugs and think reality can't be deciphered properly because
> they can't remember what it is like to have a clear mind anymore, so think
> everyone else is as confused.
Drugs don't have to have anything to do with it. The public's perception and
attitude is manipulated daily by the mainstream media. "Reality" is what those
who control the information make it. It takes a strong intellect, and a
willingness to forego dogma, to begin to see through the 'reality' that the
controllers construct for us.
What you and your other 'true believers' don't seem to get is that people like
Nessie, myself, and others who question the unwavering "ETs are flying the UFOs"
party line don't necessarily REJECT the ET hypothesis...but that we recognize
that there is no EVIDENCE for the ET hypothesis, and that other explanations
could just as well suffice.
You, on the other hand, dogmatically adhere to "ETs are here" line, and refuse
to consider any other explanation.
> 5. They are unable to see beyond themselves to be objective about Earth and
> its manifold off planet guided expressions of evolution to perfection.
Boy, if THAT isn't the dogma of the new religion!
June
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