-Caveat Lector-
Nessie,
Please stop posting such decent sensible opinions on this list. You
are really upsetting the loonies, and the bigots.
Please, do be more considerate.
Joshua2
==========================================================================
Nessie wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> A person on this list who had run out of posts for the day responded
> privately to something I said on the subject a day or two ago. I think
> some of what I said in private is worth repeating in public here. I’m
> not setting up a straw man here. This exchange really happened. I’m just
> protecting the privacy of the person, as I’d do for any of you. I never
> reveal my sources.
>
> But I think the rest of you also might be interested in what I said. I
> hope so, anywayy. Some of you really, really need to hear it from
> somebody.
>
> So here’s an excerpt:
>
> *******************
>
> This person wanted to know why “they emphasize their sexuality to the
> exclusion of everything else”
>
> So I said:
>
> I’m not sure who you mean here by “they.” If you mean individuals that
> you know personally, you should ask them, not me. If you’re talking
> about images in the media, you should be aware that the media distorts
> reality for economic reasons. There is a vast gulf between what we see
> on TV and real life.
>
> Some of them refuse hide who they are, I say good for them. Think of it
> as ethnic pride. Not all Gay people partake in Gay culture, but those
> who do, and show it off in public, are no different that African
> Americans who wear dashikis during Kwaanza or Irish Americans who wear
> green on St. Patrick’s day. The desire to display pride in who your
> People are is a natural part of the human condition. Everybody does it.
> People define who “their People” are differently, that’s all. To some
> it’s an ethnic thing, To others, it all about which language they speak.
> To some it’s a matter of nationality. To some it’s sexual orientation.
>
> Keep in mind, though, that not all Gay people partake in Gay culture.
> The majority are “passing.” You yourself almost undoubtedly have Gay
> friends and don’t know it.
>
> Let me tell you a little something about passing. As you’ve probably
> guessed by now, nessie isn’t my real name. My real name is a fairly
> generic Irish name. There are even a couple famous people who share it.
> It used to be preceded by “O’” but when my family came here in the last
> century, they dropped the “O’’’ because that was the best way to get a
> decent job. So I come from a long of passers. I know what I’m talking
> about. Passing is as American as sleeping on Indian graves.
>
> I have a pretty good friend who’s bisexual. He says it’s like being a
> Black Puerto Rican. As long as you shut up, nobody knows who you really
> are. When he told me that, I suddenly understood. It’s all about
> choosing to pass or not to pass. Most people are lazy, They take one
> look at you and assume they know who and what you are. They never
> bother to actually find out. It’s too much effort. If a Gay person
> doesn’t want you to know, you don’t know. And they are everywhere.
> Everybody who has more than a handful of friends had Gay friends,
> whether they know it or not. If they don’t know it, it’s their own
> fault.
>
> Except for Jews and Africans, nobody but Gays have caught more flak here
> for being who they are than the Irish. But eventually, people got used
> to the idea that we might act a bit strange about some things but we’re
> damn handy to have on the team. So we don’t have to pass anymore. For
> the most part, this has also happened to Jews and Italians. Now it’s
> beginning to happen to Africans and Asians. It’s high time it happened
> to Gays, too. Gay people have contributed to American culture and
> prosperity to a degree far out of proportion to thier numbers. Give them
> credit where credit is due.
>
> As a life long American, I can’t speak for other cultures, but from what
> I hear, it’s pretty much the same wherever. Gay people give more to
> every society in which they live (i.e. every society on the planet) than
> they get back. It’s time we gave them back a little. At the very least
> we ought to show them the common courtesy that we show each other. They
> have as much right to be proud of who they are as you do. Respect that
> right. Don’t be so boorish as to insult them in public. And don’t insult
> them in front of me. That’s some of my personal friends you’re
> insulting. How’d you like it if I insulted your personal friends in
> public?
>
> There’s a lot of stuff on the tube right now about Gay life because it’s
> Gay Pride week. It’s like the run up to St. Patrick’s Day. Every March
> we see endless reruns of Finnian’s Rainbow, The Hanging Gale and the
> Brothers McMullen. But nobody on CTRL bemoans the “pro-Irish bias” of
> the media that week. What’s up with that?
>
> ************
>
> This person also expressed concern that the media was exposing children
> to sex before they were old enough to be responsible enough to handle
> it.
>
> As a parent myself, I feel qualified to address this. I’ve been fairly
> promiscuous by American standards. I’m fairly promiscuous by American
> standards. I’ve always had open relationships. I’m in one now. To me,
> recreational sex is a past time. It’s what I do instead of take drugs,
> collect stamps or surf. I never tried to hide my sex life from my kid. I
> always treated sex very nonchalantly, like, it’s something grown ups do,
> you'll get interested later. Kids understand that there are things kids
> are interested in that adults aren’t, and vice versa.
>
> As a kid, he was never much interested in my sex life, except in so far
> as he liked some of my girlfriends better than others. That never seemed
> to correlate with how well I got along with any of them. It had more to
> do with how they related to him. This is pretty much how he treated all
> my friends, whether I was sleeping with them or not. We always lived in
> collective households, so he grew up with a de facto extended family,
> lots of role models. It was not a sheltered life. The more sheltered
> your childhood, the harder it will be for you to deal with the real
> world when it comes along. Having to deal with the real world sooner or
> later is an absolute certainty. I think it’s better if it doesn’t come
> as a shock.
>
> Why hide part of life from kids? They’re going going to find out anyway.
> Kids shouldn’t have to worry about pregnancy and STDs and "getting
> some" at this stage of their lives. And they don’t. But neither do they
> need to be shielded from the fact that these things exist.
>
> Dealing with sex, and dealing with knowing that it exists are quite
> different things. Unfortunately, most of us live in cities. If you live
> on a farm, your kids learn about sex the old fashioned way, by watching.
> My kid learned about sex from having puppies born in his closet. We
> didn’t own a TV till he was ten, so he didn’t get it there. I read aloud
> to him and we listened to the radio together. When he asked me
> questions, about anything at all, I gave him an honest answer. I never
> lied to him and I never refused to tell him any truth. He’s 32. He’s
> happy, healthy and well adjusted. He doesn’t do drugs or scam. He’s a
> safe driver. He’s courteous. He’s articulate. He’s worked the same trade
> since he was fifteen, and doing it after school. He kills time by
> reading philosophy. His first computer was a Commie 64. He taught
> himself Basic almost immediately. He could write code for money if he
> wanted to, but it bores him. Why am I bragging? Because it’s at least
> part my fault he turned out OK. His mother and I split up early. I’m the
> one that raised him. I must have done something right. I think what it
> was was my telling him the truth about everything I could, from the very
> beginning. When he was two and asked “why?” all the time, if I knew, I
> told him. If he didn’t understand, and he asked me again, I told him
> again. Some stuff, of course, took years, but eventually he got it, if
> not from me, from somebody. The part he got from me was the truth. I
> don’t lie to my kid. I tell the truth. That’s how I do it.
>
> That doesn’t mean that’s how everybody should do it.
>
> We must never forget that there is no one best way to raise kids. What’s
> best for society is if people raise kids in a variety of ways. That way,
> they grow up to be a variety of different kinds of adults. To be
> healthy, a society must above all avoid the perils of monoculture.
> Biology teaches that monocultures are extremely fragile. We don’t want
> to live in a fragile society. So let’s not all try to be the same or to
> teach our kids to be the same. That way we as a culture will have the
> all the variety that’s necessary for survival. For this to work, we must
> be tolerant of other people and how they live. Just because they are
> different does not mean that you’re better or they’re worse. They’re
> just different, that’s all. It’s good that we are all different. Not
> only does it enhance our chances for survival, but it vastly enriches
> our lives and our culture. The alternative, aside from being
> precariously fragile, would also be terminally boring and stagnate.
>
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