-Caveat Lector-
flw wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> > If you only knew SOMETHING about the subject, this would be fun. But you
> > argue out of complete ignorance.
> > Israel has non Jewish citizens. Many. Of different varieties.
> > DO YOU UNDERSTAND THESE WORDS???
>
> Yes I understand. See the following:
>
> Restive Israeli Arabs Complain Of Having 'No Rights, No Dignity'
>
> By Lee Hockstader
> Washington Post Foreign Service
> Tuesday , October 3, 2000 ; Page A19
>
> UMM EL FAHM, Israel, Oct. 2 -- There is no immediate reason
> to assume that Ghassan Abbas would be a bitter man. A successful
> Israeli actor, Abbas has played a range of television and stage roles
> that have earned him a degree of fame, a respectable income and an
> array of imported creature comforts.
>
> But while Abbas is an Israeli citizen, he is also an Arab and a Muslim.
>
> And in that dual identity lies the key to his anger--and to the rage of
> thousands of Israeli Arabs who have joined the street protests here
> in recent days.
>
> "We're finished with apartheid in South Africa, but now it's come
> over here to Palestine," said Abbas, 43, who pulled his Volkswagen
> behind a warehouse on the outskirts of this north Israeli town to talk
> as rioting raged a couple of hundred yards up the street.
>
> "When Jews in Israel hit a soldier or throw stones at a soldier or
> push a soldier, the police chief says, 'We can't do anything because
> we don't want to hurt people's feelings.' But it seems the Arabs
> don't have feelings, or aren't allowed to express them."
Life is tough when you're an enemy isn't it?
> In an extraordinary explosion of fury, Arab citizens of Nazareth,
> Umm el Fahm and other towns in northern Israel have swarmed
> onto the streets since Friday, joining violent protests against
> Jewish rule by their Palestinian brethren in the West Bank
> and Gaza Strip.
Let me tell you about Umn el Fahm. I happen to know that town because
they were my neighbor. The name means Mother of (Char-)Coal. In the old old
days they produced charcoal for Arab food cookers. It happens that in
1948 half the town was on Israeli land, and half the town was on the
other side which belonged to Jordan. It straddled the border.
Now I want you to understand what I'm about to tell you. The half on the
Israeli side had sewers and running water. People I know went to the town
to deliver babies and teach the mothers how to take care of them. They
weren't paid for this. They did it because they were neighbors. Needless
to say, the quality of life for these people was much better than the
quality of life for their relatives across the street. They had access to
Israel's socialized health care system in the same hospitals as the Jews.
They had electricity.
The people across the main road in middle of town who lived in Jordan, LIVED
LIKE DOGS. And they died like dogs.
Arabs will never have power in the Jewish State. They will be second class
citizens. No doubt about it. Now here comes the big question flw... ready?
If they don't like being second class citizens, why don't they leave? This
isn't meant to be snide. It's a serious question. If you want to know the
answer, here it is...
> UMM EL FAHM, Israel, Oct. 2 -- There is no immediate reason
> to assume that Ghassan Abbas would be a bitter man. A successful
> Israeli actor, Abbas has played a range of television and stage roles
> that have earned him a degree of fame, a respectable income and an
> array of imported creature comforts.
With all the problems they have, Israeli Arabs would not even move 10 miles
to live exclusively among their own on the West Bank much less to an Arab
country where they would STILL be second class, or worse.
No group is FORCED to stay in Israel. Do you understand?
When the Jews couldn't stand it anymore they moved from Russia, Poland,
Germany, Ukraine, etc. The same with the Huguenots. The same with almost every
ethnic group who ever ran from their oppressors.
The Israeli Arabs have something going in Israel.
> The Israeli Arabs, who generally have no firearms, have attacked
> Israeli forces with stones, slingshots and molotov cocktails. Today,
> in a sharp escalation of violence, Israeli troops fired on Israeli Arabs
> in Umm el Fahm and elsewhere, killing six. A seventh, who was
> injured Sunday, died of his wounds today.
Now they have become the enemy. Being an ' enemy ' is considerably worse than
being a second class citizen. As a second class citizen you can have a fairly
decent life. As an enemy you can have no life.
> It was the bloodiest instance of Israeli troops firing on the country's
> Arab population since 1976, when riots broke out in protest of
> government land expropriations.
> END OF ARTICLE
>
> Yes Israel has "non Jewish citizens." The question is, how did it get
> these non Jewish citizens? They are those who were left on the land AFTER
> Israel was created. Israel was stuck with them (and their off spring).
The Jews could have done what Muslims and Christians did historically. They
could have massacred all of them and left them as crow food. Problem solved.
> It is a constant complaint in Israel about these non Jews...how they are
> a "threat" to the future of Israel. Anyone who does not recognize that
> these non Jews are treated as second (and third) class citizens is delusional.
This is NOT a neighborhood in Anytown USA. You don't apply your standards to
a war zone. This has been your main problem. It is a typially American attitude
which makes you think that other people are obligated to be like you. The
Middle East is different. DIFFERENT.
> If Israel is NOT a Theocratic Racialist State, why are Jews automatically
> eligible for citizenship but not those of other religions or alleged Jewish
> ethnicity who were were not born in Israel?
Because they want the country to be Jewish. Live with it. That's the way
it's going to stay as long as the Jews in the ME have the power to maintain it.
> Your trumpeting about "non
> Jewish citizens" is more self deception.
I'm not going to keep repeating myself.
> > Israel's political system is secular. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THESE WORDS???
> > It is a democracy because Jewish ( majority ) and non Jewish ( minority )
> > citizens elect political parties to govern. DO YOU UNDERSTAND???
>
> It is nominally secular. It cannot be actually secular if it has a relgious /
> ethnic test for new citizens who are not born in Israel.
No this is YOUR opinion. The country is ACTUALLY secular. I know because I
lived there. And you didn't.
> DO YOU UNDERSTAND????
Very well thank you.
> > What happened to you, You never used to be this stupid.
> > Racism has ruined you brain.
> > Too bad.
> >> J2
>
> I am not a racist.
Yes you are. Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;}
> I distrust people of all races equally. I don't care what the
> Arabs and Israelis do to each other. It is none of our business.
It is none of YOUR business. I have family there. My Palestinian American
friend has family there. It is his business too. But it is none of your
business.
> However
> intellectual honesty demands that we examine the situation objectively.
> All the countries in the Middle East are theocratic, racialist societies.
Wrong! This is simply wrong. Israel is not theocratic, and the Muslim countries
are not intolerant of different races. Only different religions.
> It is
> ridiculous for Israel to claim some kind of moral superiority vis a vis the
> Palestinians.
Maybe yes maybe no.
> It is also wrong for American taxpayers to subsidize Israel's
> use of tanks and F16's against civilians. I also think it would be wrong for the
> US to subsidize Palestinian human bombs.
It is wrong for Americans to subsidize many, many things. I am for the
elimination of ALL foreign aid. The sooner the better.
> J2, you are a (sometimes) intelligent guy.
>
> Get past your primitive imaginary tribalism.
No thanks I like my tribalism. It's worth all the hassles. Evidently the
Palestinians think that their tribalism is worth the trouble too.
> (P.S. This really, really is my last post on this)
> flw
Pppsssshhhawww.
J2
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