x-mailing-list: daf-disc...@shemayisrael.com
(Please include header and footer when redistributing this material.)
_________________________________________________________________
THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST
brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
d...@dafyomi.co.il
[REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE TO DISCUSS THE DAF WITH THE KOLLEL]
________________________________________________________________
Re: Sanhedrin 063: Achaz and Molech
David Goldman asked:
>>Hello. I cannot understand the intention of this first king of Yehuda (or
Yisroel altogether) to attempt to put his son through Molech. Achaz was the
son of a great tsaddik, so where would he get the idea of doing a new
thing, a new aveyra, that no Jew had done before? Furthermore, had his son
been covered by salamander oil, wouldn't Achaz have noticed it, especially
since the goyim did not actually burn their children in the fire anyway??
Thanks.<<
The Kollel replied:
>>1) Melachim II 16:3 tells us that Achaz went in the way of the kings of
Yisrael. The verse adds that he also passed his son through fire like the
abonimations of the Nochrim. This implies that the bad influence started
from the kings of Yisrael but then Achaz declined even further and followed
the Nochrim who burnt their children.
2) Rashi (Sanhedrin 64b, DH Shraga) writes that what Achaz did was not
actually the worship of the Molech (where the children were not actually
killed by the fire) but was in fact the way of the Sepharvites, who burnt
their children in the fire (see Melachim II 17:31).
3) It is probable that Chizkiyah's mother smeared her son in salamander oil
in such a way that the oil was absorbed inside the skin and was not
noticeable on the outside.<<
---
David Goldman <dav...@verizon.net> asks:
Thanks. Didn't he also perform it in a way that he wasn't chayav by not
giving the child to the priest, who must have been a goy? And did he
actually intend to burn his own Jewish child? Then of course he must have
reacted to the fact the boy wasn't burned....What is also amazing is that
since he was only 11 years old when his son was born. and Achaz did not
become king until he was 20, this must have happened when Yosam his father
was still alive when Achaz was hardly more than a child himself!!
What is also incredible is that no one was moyche against Achaz in his
behavior, for which he was presumably chayav misa. Kings of Yehuda were
killed for lesser aveyras, and Achaz got away with what he did, which was
TOTALLY unprecedented, even among northern kings. The kohen gadol simply
went along with him and was not prepared to give up his life rather than
change things in the Temple??!
Then of course one could say that even with salamander oil the boy would
have died from smoke inhalation and the sheer heat involved. Alternatively,
he could have experienced what Chanania, Mishael and Azariah did! In other
words the salamander oil would have been insufficient protection. Aside
from the other points I wondered about.
----------------------------------------------
The Kollel replies:
1) The Metzudos David (Divrei ha'Yamim II 28:1) writes that the 16 years of
the reign of Achaz were "Mekuta'os" -- they were not consecutive. According
to this, even though Achaz was 20 when he became king, he may have been
over 36 when he died. So even though Yechizkiyahu, his son, was 25 when he
became king, that does not necessarily mean that Achaz was only 11 years
older than his son.
Howver, the Seder ha'Doros cites the Tzemach David that Achaz was 11 when
his son was born, so it seems there is a dispute among the Mefarshim on
this point. According to the Metzudos, for some reason the reign of Achaz
must have been interrupted.
The Gemara in Sanhedrin 68b states that a minor (under 13) cannot have
children. Tosfos in Sanhedrin 69a writes that in the earlier generations
they used to become mature at an earlier age (Betzalel built the Mishkan
when he was 13), but the Toras Chaim (69a) writes that even in the earlier
generations it was only on a minority of occasions that they had children
so young. In short, it is not clear if Achaz was really so young when his
son was born.
2) Presumably Achaz did not allow protests against his conduct. The Gemara
in Sanhedrin 103b tells us that Achaz abolished the service in the Beis
ha'Mikdash and "sealed" the Torah. He forcibly locked up the synagogues and
houses of Torah study and hid away the Torah. The Maharsha cites the
Midrash that Achaz was consistent with his name: he "grabbed" the
synagogues and Batei Midrash so that the children should not learn Torah.
He said that if there are no young people to continue the Torah, then in
the following generation it will disappear entirely. This was the policy of
Achaz: to try to cut off the Jewish people from the Torah so that nobody
could protest againt his idolatrous ways.
3) However, there were prophets in his times who rebuked the people against
idol-worship. Yeshayahu ha'Navi lived in his times. The Haftarah we read
every year on the Shabbos before Tish'ah b'Av (from the first chapter of
Yeshayahu), bemoaning all of the bad things that happened in Yerushalayim,
is no doubt directed partly against the evils caused by Achaz.
David, so far I still think there are more questions than answers about
Achaz, but I must close here.
Dovid Bloom
>>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<<
The *D*AFYOMI *A*DVANCEMENT *F*ORUM, brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf
Write to us at d...@dafyomi.co.il or visit us at http://www.dafyomi.co.il
Tel/Fax(US): 646-820-3315; Fax(Isr): (02) 591-6024; Tel(Isr): (02) 651-5004
_______________________________________________
Daf-discuss mailing list
Daf-discuss@shemayisrael.co.il
http://mail.shemayisrael.co.il/mailman/listinfo/daf-discuss_shemayisrael.co.il
