On Thu, 30 Nov 2017, Emmanuel Bourg wrote: > Le 30/11/2017 à 14:31, Thorsten Glaser a écrit : > > > Eek, that would break most of Debian’s stability promises. > > People would lynch you. > > I know :) That's why I mentioned "near perfect backward compatibility" > as a prerequisite.
Well, it’s not just that. People often use the interpreters shipped in Debian to also run software itself not packaged in Debian. While mksh (the shell I develop) does not quite have the amount of programs written in it (although the installed base is getting closer to Java) we’re somewhat sitting in the same boat: many Java applications cannot, currently, realistically be packaged for Debian because too many dependencies aren’t for people to even try within any given timeframe, and shell scripts or programs aren’t often packaged either. So, I’d never include a breaking change in a stable upload of mksh, and Java is even more fragile (despite Oracle Java being “the same as” OpenJDK recently, stuff still occasio‐ nally behaves different, etc.), so I’d expect that the JDK shipped with stable doesn’t change, only receive security and critical bugfixes. Note I’m explicitly *not* distinguishing between JDK and JRE because my employer deals in Java, and as such, many people and headless systems (like Jenkins) have the JDK installed while other systems (most, but not all, servers) only have JRE-headless, and we’d like to achieve version equality (which is also why I spoke out against having version skew between JDK and JRE in buster). I’m really surprised Oracle’s going to pull a Mozilla and try to push out new Java major(!) versions every few months now, when traditionally this has been extremely slow-moving. This sounds extremely disconnected from the Real Life. For comparison, we have a hard time getting some customers to upgrade from Java 7 to 8, and I heard one or two might still be using Java 6 in 2017. I’ve actually been actively progressive in basically demanding that our developers fix stuff for Java 8 *because* of Debian being so progressive as to ship it ;-) Just my personal insight, but with several PoVs (I maintain a comparable-in-a-manner interpreter, I package the occasio‐ nal Java stuff for Debian when necessary, I use Debian’s JDK and Maven and Jenkins for $dayjob, and the latter has somehow gotten me into not just trying to operate but also patch Java code, plus supporting customers in running and debugging it, and I’ve got a good understanding of how Debian operates, and stand behind it). bye, //mirabilos PS: Occasionally, my employer might be hiring; look at the .signature if interested, I don’t even know if they do at the moment. -- tarent solutions GmbH Rochusstraße 2-4, D-53123 Bonn • http://www.tarent.de/ Tel: +49 228 54881-393 • Fax: +49 228 54881-235 HRB 5168 (AG Bonn) • USt-ID (VAT): DE122264941 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Stefan Barth, Kai Ebenrett, Boris Esser, Alexander Steeg