On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Speaking of a confusing email exchange. This is difficult for busy people > in the last 24 hours how many messages have been posted? A lot. By how many > people? Not many and most by one person. > > Did anyone create a CWiki page to outline an actual proposal and possible > variations? > I created this page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/File+handling+proposal+for+logos+and+graphics > > I would like to know what the delta is from what we are doing now to any > new state in order to see if I agree or have another choice. > > Regards, > Dave > > On Aug 13, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: > > > On 8/13/13, Ricardo Berlasso <rgb.m...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> 2013/8/13 Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> > >> > >>> On 8/13/13, Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Alexandro Colorado > >>>>>>>> <j...@oooes.org > >>>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> I think the image structure on the website is a bit messy, > >>>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>>> has > >>>>>> been > >>>>>>>>> some cleanup done by kschenk but I think there is still a lot > >>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>> clean up > >>>>>>>>> work to be done. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> For example, the new logo, was simply draged and drop to the > >>>>> AOOLogos > >>>>>>>>> folder with a huge name. I understand the name was needed to > >>>>> identify > >>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>> between the rest of the competitive logos. But now that is > >>>>>>>>> selected, > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> current name is unecessary long. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_optim_300w.png< > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_optim_300w.png?view=log > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Right. That work is incomplete. I checked it in originally, > >>>>>>>> after > >>>>>>>> the logo vote, so we could start working on the product > >>>>>>>> integration > >>>>>>>> immediately. But note that the above logo is not the one we > >>>>>>>> actually > >>>>>>>> used in AOO 4.0 !! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The one we actually used is this one: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branding/Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_Inkscape_kg.svg > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This was Chris R's contest logo with some minor technical > >>>>>>>> changes. > >>>>>>>> Kevin G. used this and generated the PNG/JPG files for AOO 4.0, > >>>>>>>> which > >>>>>>>> I helped check in. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> My intent was to take that SVG and rename it to > >>> "master-logo-40.svg" > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Again I think we do need a convention for a "logo.svg" as opposed > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>> ending with a logo-30.svg logo-40.svg logo-50.svg. An just > >>>>> incrementally > >>>>>>> replace with the future logos as we update the SVG. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here's the complication: The old logos are still relevant some > >>>>>> some > >>>>>> purposes. For example, the PMC receives ongoing requests to approve > >>>>>> use of the old OpenOffice.org logo. Why would that happen? Often > >>>>>> it > >>>>>> is a request by publishers who are making an e-book version of an > >>>>>> older print book. If their original request did not include the > >>>>>> e-book rights then they come back to us (and owners of every other > >>>>>> image they use) to request additional permissions. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I think that 'complication' is the lesser of two evils., compared to > >>>>> having to manage a ever growing ammount of images. And beside that, > do > >>>>> you > >>>>> realize the difference in objectives between ooo-site/images/ > >>>>> ooo-site/marketing/art/images/ and ooo-site/branding/images. > >>>>> > >>>>> I dont see any reason why those issues should impact the web works of > >>>>> ooo-site/images/. That folder is for website-design related work. It > >>> has, > >>>>> or shouldnt hold any porpouse to archieve past work, nor to hold > >>>>> description of any kind. I think website should be as lean and easy > to > >>>>> follow since we expect these conventions be followed by a rotating > >>>>> community. So again K.I.S.S. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> No, it shouldn't. The ooo-site/images areas got the logo added to it > >>> simply > >>>> because to make it easier to locate it. The other images files there > >>> belong > >>>> to the home page. The svg sub-directory here is really the mis-placed > >>> one. > >>> > >>> Actually I would like to see getting rid of the rasterize images > >>> instead. Modern browsers already process SVG natively without issues. > >>> > >> > >> > >> Well, that's not completely true: even if not "modern" any more there > are > >> literally millions of people still using internet explorer 8 or even > older > >> versions, and SVG support was *partially* implemented only from IE9. IE8 > >> needs a plug-in for SVG rendering. > >> > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics#Compatibility > > > > That's why I recomend and reference javascript libraries that take > > care of legacy browsers additionally there are fallback techniques > > (http://dbushell.com/2012/04/03/svg-use-it-already/). Then again, you > > can just test this easily using browsershots or something similar and > > evaluate. > > > >> > >> Regards > >> Ricardo > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Also there are js libraries that ensure browser compatibility like the > >>> svgweb.js library: > >>> http://code.google.com/p/svgweb/ > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> If those complications arises, send them to marketing or branding > >>>>> workspaces. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So it may be possible, going forward, to store logos as SVN > >>>>>> revisions > >>>>>> under the same name. But we cannot retroactively do this with > >>>>>> pre-Apache logos. And even if we could, this is harder for users of > >>>>>> the logo to access. It is much easier to have something like > >>>>>> logo-330.svg available via HTTP. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> svg are just like HTML files, they are markup languages, we dont hold > >>> the > >>>>> index.html inmaculated and hold an apache-index.html and > >>>>> oracle-index.html, > >>>>> so I dont see why SVG should be any different. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I don't agree this assessment. The svg files contain branding, or > >>>> trademark sources. These are entities which should not be changed -- > >>>> resulting in a trademark violation. If there is something wrong with > >>>> the > >>>> SVG files for whatever reason, this needs to undergo a justification > >>>> discussion. > >>>> > >>>> The only porpouse of having > >>>>> a source file, is for users to be able to modify it on the first > >>>>> place. > >>>>> Either by integrating to a bigger SVG design, or resizing it for > print > >>>>> work. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> This part I do agree with. The svg files can be used to produce > various > >>>> sizes of the "trademarked" entities. Changing the source of that > entity > >>> is > >>>> a different matter in my opinion. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course you can have a hybrid approach: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1) When a new logo is introduced, svn copy the old one into a > >>>>>> /old-logos directory with a new descriptive name. This preserves > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> version history. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> This is not functional and just start acumulating part of the same > >>>>> garbage > >>>>> that svn is supposed to clean up. Again, if this was code, this would > >>>>> be > >>>>> totally unacceptable approach. If new logos are introduced then they > >>>>> should > >>>>> replace the current logo, and the old will live in anals of the svn > >>> logs. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 2) New logo then is checked in as a new revision of logo-master.svg. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> People are free to disagree with me, but I think this is a messy way > >>>>> to > >>>>> work, and for a webdev folder is completely useless, specially when > >>> there > >>>>> is a whole different project specialized on archiving, developing, > and > >>>>> multiplying artwork inside marketing, and a whole different project > >>>>> devoted > >>>>> to specifying the guideliness of the brand (aka logo). > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -Rob > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> or something clean like that. However, I have not had any luck > >>>>>>>> getting this logo to load into Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator. I > >>> get > >>>>>>>> errors. And I have not had any luck getting Kevin to send a > >>> version > >>>>>>>> that will load. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> So we're stuck right now with a logo that does load into > >>>>>>>> Inkscape, > >>>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>> is slightly different than the one we used in AOO 4.0. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> At the same time we have old logos which had been untouch. I > >>> think > >>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> webdevs have small understanding of a svn is builted so that > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>> files > >>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>> updated without having different versions laying arround. Over > >>>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>> example, ooo-logo.png and > >>>>>>>>> AOO4_website_logo.png< > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/AOO4_website_logo.png?view=log > >>>>>>>>> exist. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> All these proliferation of logos, usually will built up to > >>>>>>>>> become > >>>>>>>>> incredibly messy to work. I suggest to put the information such > >>> as > >>>>>>>> author, > >>>>>>>>> version, status, etc. on the comments of the commit and not on > >>> the > >>>>>>>>> filename. Likewise to take the time to look for the source of > >>> the > >>>>>> image, > >>>>>>>>> since there is an SVG/ folder to link the source of them, and > >>>>> finally > >>>>>> if > >>>>>>>>> there are different images (sizes) to have a common convention. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> A more logical naming scheme would be good, I agree. But this > >>>>>>>> has > >>>>>>>> been waiting for resolution of which SVG we should actually be > >>>>>>>> using. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -Rob > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If you want to review the images please go here: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado > >>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor > >>>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado > >>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor > >>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Alexandro Colorado > >>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor > >>>>> http://www.openoffice.org > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> MzK > >>>> > >>>> Success is falling nine times and getting up ten." > >>>> -- Jon Bon Jovi > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Alexandro Colorado > >>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor > >>> http://www.openoffice.org > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Alexandro Colorado > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor > > http://www.openoffice.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org
