EV Digest 5265
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line
by "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV cheaper than gas per mile
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Angle Iron to Chassis
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 12V "house" battery
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Angle Iron to Chassis
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Angle Iron to Chassis
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Conversion time line?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: 12V "house" battery
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 12V "house" battery
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Angle Iron to Chassis
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EaglePicher Horizon Group RS1250 "Racing" Battery
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) motor wrangling
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Another eBay EV find: Avenger in NY state
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: EaglePicher Horizon Group RS1250 "Racing" Battery
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EV 1
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Angle Iron to Chassis
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: motor wrangling
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EaglePicher Horizon Group RS1250 "Racing" Battery
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: EaglePicher Horizon Group RS1250 "Racing" Battery
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Huge AGM cells
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EaglePicher Horizon Group RS1250 "Racing" Battery
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) EBEAA Meeting this Saturday 3/25/06 10-12 in Alameda, CA
by Ed Thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Angle Iron to Chassis
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Angle Iron to Chassis
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: EV 1
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) RE: Huge AGM cells
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) RE: EaglePicher Horizon Group RS1250 "Racing" Battery
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
35) Re: Huge AGM cells
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Nice. Even the $10 ones also record the highest and average reading for
later recall/reset and a trip odometer and lifetime odometer that could
probably be useful. And rather than fooling with your own circuit, fine
adjustments in the readings can be made by reprogramming the "wheel
circumference" setting on the bike computer. (You could also use that to
increase the resolution of the readings.)
Tim
---------
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:28:52 -0600
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
How about if instead of a clock you feed the pulses into a bicycle
computer. The speed display would be the current amperage, most of them
also have average and peak speeds. The ones I have seen have a speed
display up to 99.9 so you would likely want to calibrate it so that 10.0
mph was 100 amps, the odometer display X10 would then be amp hours, I am
not sure what the unit would do with an input of less then 0.1 mph it may
not accumulate on the odometer. Last time I looked the cheap ones were
about $7 so that makes up for the limited resolution on the amperage.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike:
You wrote:
....ANOTHER episode of "This New Car" is now on-line (MP3 recording) at
http://www.wicn.org/programs/thisnewcar/schedule.htm
Podcast/RSS support for "This New Car" is available on the same page.
The episodes are 30 minutes each and almost all meat, very little fat
compared
to most talk shows. Listen and see if you agree........
Lord knows alternate fuels get little enough media attention, but, after
downloading episodes 1-9 and listening to them while I was on a trip last
week, my reaction was not overenthusiastic.
Perhaps because I don't listen to talk radio much, I found the information
purveyed simplistic, misleading, and repetitive (except for the Rolling
Stones' music in the opener). I was particularly distressed when they
"dissed" a "pure EV" as being underpowered. They obviously haven't seen the
Blue Meanie or the White Zombie.
There were certainly items of information I learned, but five scripted
essay-reports could have conveyed the same material, without the element of
repetition the "Lets get four guys that know about this stuff and ask them
questions" approach generates.
I'm afraid half-efforts (to be honest, it WAS a local show) like this will
leave general listeners thinking even less of the potential of electrical
vehicles. Now, If BBC's Top Gear would do an episode on EV...
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:17:42 -0600 (CST), "Michaela Merz"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Cor wrote:
>
>> EV truck fuel costs:
>> 400Wh per mile and recharging at 5.8c per kWh plus some
>> charging inefficiencies mean that electricity is $0.03/mi
>
>Holy smoke - where do you get the Kw/h for 5.8c? They just raised
>us to 17c .. ?
I'm not sure what it is after the recent small rate increase but it
was 5.2 cents/kw here. We (and TVA) don't cotton the fruits'n'nuts
here so we have plenty of generation, particularly nuclear, to keep
the rates down.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> I'm converting a 1993 Geo Metro, which is a uni-body car. To support
> the batteries under the hood, my plan is to run lengths of angle iron
> across the engine bay, attaching to the wheel wells on each side.
> When I talk to a welder about this today, however, he was hesitant to
> weld the angle iron to the car. He said that there might be too much
> racking, which would cause the car's sheet metal to tear. He says
> that I should bolt the angle iron in place instead.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone welded this way,
> and if so, have there been any problems?
My EV has two battery boxes, one front and one rear, each with six 63
lbs batteries. That's 378 lbs per box; rather light as battery boxes go,
but probably close to what you'd have in your Metro.
The rear one is a 5-sided sheet steel box, about 24" x 24" x 11". The
sheet metal floor was cut out, this box was fitted into the opening, and
seam welded in place. The weld is rather sloppy, as the box material is
quite a bit thicker than the body. If I were to do it over, I'd use the
same thickness for the box and body sheet metal.
The front box is polyethylene, and sits in a frame made of 1"x1"x0.125"
thick angle iron. The angle iron is welded, and has six "feet" that are
bolted to the body. Two connect to the front bumper supports, two to the
motor mounts, and two to the frame rails.
Both techniques have worked out fine. They are rather crude and less
than ideal; but have been perfectly functional.
I think your friend the welder is right; you don't want to weld thick
angle iron to thin sheet metal; it will be weak and concentrates all the
stress in a small spot. Either bolt it in to existing "hard points"
already stressed to take engine, bumper, or suspension loads; or use
thinner stock and weld it over a large area.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The total load on the 12V battery with the key
off was measured at 100ma, that's with the E-meter
awake. My truck was built in 1961, so all the loads on
the 12V system are the ones I added. The ones I've
identified are the E-meter, the 12V to 12V Dc to DC
that powers it and the Hairball for the Zilla. It
seems to me that the truck should be able to sit for a
week or more without a problem. The 100ma is with the
E-meter awake, which is 5 minutes after the charger
kicks off. I don't know how much the load drops with
the meter at rest but I'd guess it would drop by 25ma
or more. It seems to me when talking about a tenth of
an amp or less a marine battery should hang in there
for more than a few days.
TiM
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bill, I consulted a mechanical engineer friend for advice on my boxes.
The new Beetle as 18ga sheet metal. Instead of using angle iron of a much
heavier gauge, we constructed a hollow beam from 18ga sheet metal. This
became **very** strong, easy to weld to the uni-body and relatively light.
Take a look at
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatteryBoxConstruction.html for a
picture of how it was done.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: March 20, 2006 10:01 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Angle Iron to Chassis
I'm converting a 1993 Geo Metro, which is a uni-body car. To support the
batteries under the hood, my plan is to run lengths of angle iron across the
engine bay, attaching to the wheel wells on each side. When I talk to a
welder about this today, however, he was hesitant to weld the angle iron to
the car. He said that there might be too much racking, which would cause
the car's sheet metal to tear. He says that I should bolt the angle iron in
place instead.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone welded this way, and if
so, have there been any problems?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My basket is angle iron that is _bolted_ to the frame
rails on the bottom, and suspended (flat iron hanging
down to the basket) by two 10 mm bolts on each side,
coming off of the strut mounts.
The way I see it, 5 batts. x 80 lbs = 400 lbs., /4
bolts, is 100 lbs. per bolt on the strut tower, and
that's assuming the frame rails weren't shouldering
_any_ of the load.
Letting the car _flex_ if you will, around curves,
etc. makes sense to me. I will say that the strut
tower mounts, while being tubular overall (a strong
shape) seem to be of pretty thin, cheap steel. I'd
imagine this is to shape it properly.
The point is, I'd take the welder's word!
Just my 0.02.
> I'm converting a 1993 Geo Metro, which is a uni-body
> car. To support the
> batteries under the hood, my plan is to run lengths
> of angle iron across the
> engine bay, attaching to the wheel wells on each
> side. When I talk to a
> welder about this today, however, he was hesitant to
> weld the angle iron to
> the car. He said that there might be too much
> racking, which would cause
> the car's sheet metal to tear. He says that I
> should bolt the angle iron in
> place instead.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone
> welded this way, and if
> so, have there been any problems?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Removing ICE, radiator, & heat shields, 8-10 hrs.
Intalling heater core, 10 hrs.
Welding batt. racks, motor mount, & adapter plate
fabric. (contracted out). 0 hrs.
Installing same 6 hrs.
Wiring 30 hrs.
Beefing up suspension 4 hrs.
Fabbing contactor mount, DCDC mount, controller mounts
& mounting same 3 hrs.
Fabbing rear polypropy box: 4 hrs. (pre-cut pieces)
Fabbing rear rack; torching unit body for rack
(contracted out). 0 hrs.
Braking system 3 hrs.
Brainwork laying out & re-laying out components,
directions of batteries, etc., filming process: 20
hrs, mostly while driving!
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Seth, I did not actually record numbers, but for
> the New Beetle project,
> it took approx 30-40hrs to remove the ice, gas tank,
> exhaust, interior (for
> access to battery boxes), dash (for heater core),
> etc. It took approx
> 160-200 hrs to figure out the new electrical system,
> interfaces, motor
> mounts, brakes, power steering, etc.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg
> Sent: March 20, 2006 7:29 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Conversion time line?
>
> Does anyone have notes on where the time is spent in
> converting a car?
>
> I have heard estimates of 100 to 200 hours, but I
> was wondering what
> percentage of that is demolition and what percent is
> construction.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TiM M [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The total load on the 12V battery with the key
> off was measured at 100ma, that's with the E-meter
> awake.
> It seems to me when talking about a tenth of
> an amp or less a marine battery should hang in there
> for more than a few days.
You're right, it should... if it is fully charged to start with.
It seems to me that you have only been looking at half the issue so far.
You know that the key-off load is only 0.1A (at most), which over the
course of 3 days amounts to 7.2Ah drained from the battery. So, either
your battery is shot, that is, even fully charged it has only about 7Ah
of capacity, or your battery isn't fully charged to start with.
(Another possibility is that your house battery is aging in such a way
that its internal self-discharge current is substantial, like on the
same order of magnitude as the 0.1A external load that you can measure;
you could test this by seeing how long it takes for the battery to
self-discharge when disconnected from all loads.)
You indicated that you have a 55A DC/DC that is on during your 30min
(each way?) commute; so each day that you use the vehicle, the house
battery could be getting up to 55Ah put back into it.
However, in reality, you have some amount of 12V loads consuming some of
that 55A while driving the vehicle, and these key-on loads will be
significantly greater than the 0.1A key-off load. 20-30A is easily
possible, which leaves a maximum of 25-30A for charging the house
battery.
Also, you don't mention what the DC/DC output voltage is set to. Since
you are only running the DC/DC while the key is on, it needs to be set
for a highish voltage like 14.7V to ensure that it actually charges the
battery (essentially mimicing the alternator in an ICE vehicle). If you
have it set for a float-like voltage of 13.2-13.8V then it can't fully
charge your house battery unless you leave it running for many hours
(like 24/7).
Given that it seems that if you use the vehicle daily the house battery
does get somewhat charged, we know that the DC/DC is putting some charge
current into the battery. However, we also know that it may not be
putting very much into the battery since even after some number of days
of use the battery has only accumulated about 7Ah of charge (since it
takes only 3 days of inactivity to drain it again).
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TiM M wrote:
> The total load on the 12V battery with the key off was measured
> at 100ma, that's with the E-meter awake.
The E-meter should have been drawing less than 50ma, so you have
something else on your 12v system using at least 50ma more. It might be
worth figuring out what it is, in case it's something that will change
long-term.
> It seems to me when talking about a tenth of an amp or less a marine
> battery should hang in there for more than a few days.
It should; but if it's been run dead a few times, it's remaining amphour
capacity could be essentially gone. If a 100ma load kills it in 3 days,
it may only have 0.1a x 3 x 24hrs = 7.2 amphour left.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don, your site is so classic, can't get over it :-)
One day you need to write a book about conversion...
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
Hi Bill, I consulted a mechanical engineer friend for advice on my boxes.
The new Beetle as 18ga sheet metal. Instead of using angle iron of a much
heavier gauge, we constructed a hollow beam from 18ga sheet metal. This
became **very** strong, easy to weld to the uni-body and relatively light.
Take a look at
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatteryBoxConstruction.html for a
picture of how it was done.
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was quite surprised to see this product in the latest catalog:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=42252&parentCategoryId=10683
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, ever since Godzilla showed up at my house last week (in an itty
bitty box - he must be very flexible), I've stepped up efforts to move
this Fiero project along. this evening, I tried to get the motor in.
I've already test fit it, and I got it to go in once. Now, however, it
seems determined to fight me. Despite a lot of wrangling tonight, it
refuses to go in that last 1.5". It'll go on the tranny shaft a bit,
then slide on another inch or so after a bit of wrangling, changing
angles, etc., but then it hangs. I can't see anything in its way that
it could be hanging on.
So, all you fiero fans out there (I know you're out there, I can hear
you scraping away rust), what is it hanging up on? is there a trick to
it? It's the 4 speed manual tranny. (Yes, It clears the CV joint.)
TIA for any advice.
David Brandt
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This project is begging for a dedicated EVista...how 'bout them wooden battery
hold-downs (at least they're held down):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4623882670
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
I was quite surprised to see this product in the latest catalog:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=42252&parentCategoryId=10683
Hmmm, first I've heard of this Arizona battery company (but then I've
been kinda busy, not paying attention). Googled around a bit, found
mention of their 12A5000 battery. Has been shown to produce a 5000+ amp
current for at least five seconds without damage... jeeez! The 12D2000
indicates at least 2000A for 30 seconds, 1776A at 1 minute, with a 68A
rating at 1 hour. Kinda pricey at $410 each, though.
Found some EVs that are using these batts:
http://www.poormansev.com/id34.html
Anyone else have experience with this manufacture?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all:
I saw an EV1 today. It looked beautiful. I immediately imagined what it would
be like if....
The short of the story is that the car I saw was on display at the
Smithsonian's National Museum of American History. What an irony.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Victor!
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: March 20, 2006 6:36 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Angle Iron to Chassis
Don, your site is so classic, can't get over it :-) One day you need to
write a book about conversion...
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
> Hi Bill, I consulted a mechanical engineer friend for advice on my boxes.
> The new Beetle as 18ga sheet metal. Instead of using angle iron of a
> much heavier gauge, we constructed a hollow beam from 18ga sheet
> metal. This became **very** strong, easy to weld to the uni-body and
relatively light.
>
> Take a look at
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatteryBoxConstruction.html for a
> picture of how it was done.
>
> Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello David,
First thing is to use a clutch alignment tool to center the clutch to the
center line in the bell housing. Notice that the clutch alignment tool ring
handle is align up with the spline in the clutch plate. Used this as a
reference for aligning up the splines.
Than rotate the transmission pilot input shaft to that same spline position.
If you are try to put the motor to the transmission while the transmission
is in the car, use four long bolts, to bolt the transmission to the bell
housing, so you have room to slid it back and forth while keeping the
transmission in line with the bell housing.
Check the alignment of the splines, you may have draw a reference point back
further on the input pilot shaft. Keep the transmission in final gear, so
you can rotated it a bit.
Now push the transmission in a bit, if it stops, than back out and rotate
the shaft a bit, while your rotate it a little bit, you push transmission in
at the same time. Sometime you can feel that it is solid where the splines
are against each other, and than you may feel a click where the splines are
now not against each other.
Sometimes, you have to push harder when this happens, and the transmission
may go in.
When the transmission is against the bell housing, than replace the long
bolts with the standard type.
This is the only way I can install my transmission into the bell housing
while working by my self.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:04 PM
Subject: motor wrangling
> Well, ever since Godzilla showed up at my house last week (in an itty
> bitty box - he must be very flexible), I've stepped up efforts to move
> this Fiero project along. this evening, I tried to get the motor in.
> I've already test fit it, and I got it to go in once. Now, however, it
> seems determined to fight me. Despite a lot of wrangling tonight, it
> refuses to go in that last 1.5". It'll go on the tranny shaft a bit,
> then slide on another inch or so after a bit of wrangling, changing
> angles, etc., but then it hangs. I can't see anything in its way that
> it could be hanging on.
>
> So, all you fiero fans out there (I know you're out there, I can hear
> you scraping away rust), what is it hanging up on? is there a trick to
> it? It's the 4 speed manual tranny. (Yes, It clears the CV joint.)
>
> TIA for any advice.
>
> David Brandt
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not sure if that was meant to mean electric vehicle racing. I think
it's saying it's a lighter, high reliability battery for internal
combustion racing vehicles.
Danny
Ryan Stotts wrote:
I was quite surprised to see this product in the latest catalog:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=42252&parentCategoryId=10683
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The literature states "highest specific energy of any lead acid battery in
the marketplace today". Am I wrong for thinking that a standard Group 31
AGM at 100 AH that weighs 69 lbs has a slightly better specific energy than
four of these totaling 72 lbs for the same AH rating? Published discharge
rates notwithstanding these seem no great feat in energy storage. Power
delivery on the other hand....1200 Amps from an 18 lb battery. That may be
somthing to brag about :-)
Mike
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 5:44 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: EaglePicher Horizon Group RS1250 "Racing" Battery
I was quite surprised to see this product in the latest catalog:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=1000
2&storeId=10001&categoryId=42252&parentCategoryId=10683
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can't figure out a use for them, but I'm still in awe. Guy's selling
1255 amp-hr AGM cells, 200 lbs each.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtest.lab.guyQQhtZ-1
They're in Austin, Tx. Very cheap if you're here, otherwise very
expensive to ship.
Wish I was trying to make a huge solar installation.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 20 Mar
2006 13:30:51 -0800
I'm ready to spend money on this project. What chips and shunts should I buy?
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/20/06 8:01:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Ryan Stotts wrote:
> I was quite surprised to see this product in the latest catalog:
>
>
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=42252&parentCategoryId=10683
>>
This Battery has been in the back of the classified section of the weekly
delivered National Dragster for a year now. Dennis Berube
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*********START OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
Topic: The Kewet EV
Date: Saturday, March 25, 2006, 10 am to 12 noon.
Location: Alameda First Baptist Church
1515 Santa Clara Ave, Alameda
Visitors welcome, open to the public.
Over the years various EVs have been produced in
limited production. One common trend has been the
creation of compact 2-seater vehicles for city and
mid-range driving. From Denmark, there came a very
practical EV called the Kewet.
This month we are focusing on this vehicle, of which
there are about 4 working versions in our Chapter.
Scott Cornell will be leading the talk on some history
and background into the vehicle, plus information
about the current production in Norway and how various
Kewets have been enhanced and upgraded.
Several Kewets will be on display and driving around
in the parking lot after the meeting.
Come join us, and also hear about our upcoming EV
Display and Ride-along events - first one is April 22
at Diablo Valley College, Pleasant Hill (near
Concord). We will have EVs on display in the parking
lot after the meeting, and plenty of opportunities for
Q&A.
http://www.ebeaa.org
**********END OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT************
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Dale Curren wrote:
> I'm ready to spend money on this project. What chips and shunts should
> I buy?
Which "this"? Several ideas have been talked about in this thread.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
>> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Don, your site is so classic, can't get over it :-) One day you need
> to write a book about conversion...
I agree, Don. You've done a truly great job on your conversion and
website. With a few dimensions and a little more step-by-step
instruction, a person could probably duplicate it!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
> Dale Curren wrote:
> > I'm ready to spend money on this project. What chips and shunts should
> > I buy?
>
> Which "this"? Several ideas have been talked about in this thread.
>
The bicycle computer one seems to be the "bizarre" idea he wants to persue.
Would love to see how this works out.
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--- Begin Message ---
At 06:37 AM 3/21/2006, you wrote:
** Reply to message from "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon,
20 Mar
2006 13:30:51 -0800
I'm ready to spend money on this project. What chips and shunts should I buy?
Dale Curren
I can't help much on the V to F convertor part but here are some quick
numbers for the bicycle computer part if you want to go that way.
Computer in metric mode, not that it matters much the displayed units will
be wrong ether way but the computers I have used are programmed by imputing
the circumference of the wheel in mm.
Say for 100 amps we want the display to read 10.0 km per hour.
So then 10.0 km per hour is 0.166666 km per minute or 166666 mm per
minute. (Ever whish we used a base 10 time system?)
Now 60 pulses per minute would be a wheel circumference of 166666 / 60 =
2777.7 mm
A range of wheel circumferences and converting to seconds would be.
At 100 amps At 900 amps
Wheel Pulses Pulses
Circumference per per
in mm second second
2777.7 1 9
1388.9 2 18
694.4 4 36
Since the programmed circumference will be entered as a whole number we may
want to figure that backward.
At 100 amps At 900 amps
Wheel Pulses Pulses
Circumference per per
in mm second second
3000 0.9259 8.3331
2000 1.3889 12.500
1000 2.7778 25.000
500 5.5555 50.000
100 27.777 249.99
There may be some limits on what the bicycle computer will accept for a
circumference.
Oh and check the above math.:)
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Use a precision voltage-to-frequency converter chip, like the LM331 or
AD537. It converts the voltage across your shunt to frequency. This
frequency drives the crystal input of the divider chip in the clock
(it's normally a 32 KHz crystal). Pick your V-to-F chip's resistor and
capacitor for the desired countdown rate and you have it!
Wouldn't the input offset to these devices (3-10mV) be much too high for
a "normal" EV shunt?
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--- Begin Message ---
On my 90 Geo they are bolted ... Heavy metal screws might also work
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm converting a 1993 Geo Metro, which is a uni-body car. To
support the
> batteries under the hood, my plan is to run lengths of angle iron
across the
> engine bay, attaching to the wheel wells on each side. When I
talk to a
> welder about this today, however, he was hesitant to weld the
angle iron to
> the car. He said that there might be too much racking, which
would cause
> the car's sheet metal to tear. He says that I should bolt the
angle iron in
> place instead.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone welded this
way, and if
> so, have there been any problems?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Dale Curren wrote:
>>> I'm ready to spend money on this project. What chips and shunts
>>> should I buy?
>> Which "this"? Several ideas have been talked about in this thread.
> The bicycle computer one seems to be the "bizarre" idea he wants to
> persue.
Ok. For this and most of the other things mentioned (like running a
clock motor as your display device), you need to start with the voltage
to frequency converter circuit. I suggest starting with the Analog
Devices AD537. It's an older IC and a little expensive, but does
everything with one chip (V/F converter, voltage regulator, voltage
reference, input amplifier, etc.). Here's a circuit from their data
sheet for measuring a 0-50mv signal (like the voltage across a 50mv
shunt). View with a fixed-width font like Courier:
________|\|__________________________________________________
| |/| D1 _|_ | |
__|__+ ___ 1uF > 100k |
___ 12v battery | > |
| - com > output frequency |
__| _______________ | proportional |
| | _____|1 gnd Fout 14|___|___to current |
| > + | | | (0-10 KHz for 0-50mv) |
| > Shunt com __|2 Sync +V 13|_____________________________|
| > - | |
| |___/\/\________|3 Iin Cap 12|___
| | R1 | | | _|_ C1
| com 200 |_____|4 -Vin | ___ precision capacitor
| scale | | Cap 11|___| 0.0047uF
|___________ | ____|5 +Vin |
| | Vos 10|__
R2 > | |
100k > __|6 Temp Vos 9|__
offset > | |
|_____|7 Vref -V 8|__
|_______________| |
Analog Devices AD573 com
As shown, this measures the charging current into the 12v battery. It is
powered off the 12v battery itself, and draws about 1.2ma. C1 sets the
basic frequency; it should be a high quality temperature-stable part. R1
and R2 should be trimpots. R1 sets the full-scale frequency with 50mv
across the shunt. R2 sets the offset, i.e. the frequency output with 0
mv across the shunt. Note that you can't have negative frequency, so it
doesn't measure positive and negative current. But you can set the
offset so (for example) +50mv to -50mv gets converted to 0 to 10 KHz.
That way 10 KHz means +50mv, 5 KHz is 0 mv, and -50mv is 0 KHz.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey all:
I saw an EV1 today. It looked beautiful. I immediately imagined what it would
be like if....
The short of the story is that the car I saw was on display at the
Smithsonian's National Museum of American History. What an irony.
Jim
More interesting is that the car was removed from the GM sponsored
transportation exhibit, and is now in a roped off area in the opposite
side of the building.
At least its still on display....
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
> Can't figure out a use for them, but I'm still in awe. Guy's selling
> 1255 amp-hr AGM cells, 200 lbs each.
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtest.lab.guyQQhtZ-1
Killer dump pack!
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--- Begin Message ---
Mike & Paula Willmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The literature states "highest specific energy of any lead
> acid battery in the marketplace today". Am I wrong for
> thinking that a standard Group 31 AGM at 100 AH that weighs
> 69 lbs has a slightly better specific energy than four of
> these totaling 72 lbs for the same AH rating?
Yes, you could be wrong... the Horizons are rated at the C/3 rate, and
your 69lb group 31 will likely have less than 100Ah of capacity at the
C/3 rate.
Consider the 12D2000 Horizon: 85Ah C/3, 68Ah C/1, 57.6lb, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Then the Trojan 31XHS: 105Ah C/5, ~70Ah C/1, 67lbs, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At the 1hr rate, the 31XHS delivers 1.06Ah/lb. The 12D2000 delivers
1.18Ah/lb at the 1hr rate.
Then consider that the 12D2000 still delivers 59Ah when discharged in
30min, and 30Ah when discharged in 1min (at almost 1800A!), and can dish
out 2400A+ and it becomes clear that it is a far superior battery for EV
aplications, whether or not it actually has the "highest specific energy
of any lead acid battery in the marketplace today"!
I'd really like to see the specs for the 12A5000 (rated for 5000CA vs
the 12D2000's 2000CA), and especially to see if it is intended for deep
cycle use or just SLI-type duty, but they don't appear to be on
Horizon's website:
<http://www.ephorizon.com/Horizon/Products/Batteries/Product_Spec.htm>
Cheers,
Roger.
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Oh I know, the people promising that the "vehicle to grid" tie-in was
going to make you hundreds of dollars because the power company pays you
back a higher rate for the reserve capacity when you dump it back to
them at critical parts of the day. Remember how I said (with some
degree of sarcasm) that if a vehicle's battery could actually get paid
that rate then I'd just forget the vehicle, fill my garage with
batteries and earn thousands of dollars every month. Logically I assume
this is not possible since the power company would make their own
installation if it was worth that much to them.
Just think- with around 110 of these, you could actually have 220v with
enough capacity to run your house with air conditioner off the grid for
several days, and only at like C/10 or C/20 rate. Makes solar power
quite reasonable! With enough panels you could actually suck up several
cloudy days with no problem.
Danny
Myles Twete wrote:
Can't figure out a use for them, but I'm still in awe. Guy's selling
1255 amp-hr AGM cells, 200 lbs each.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtest.lab.guyQQhtZ-1
Killer dump pack!
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